Yup Auto buff would be nice, especially if they made Protect and Shell CON only spells, it would give added meaning to have a CON in your party, maybe they could give THM an aiuto party buff of some kind as well.
Of course I can only imagine the outcry that would ensue when other classes could no longer equip Protect and Shell.
Edit:- Thinking about it more, it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy auto protect and auto shell from the conjurer guild as a conjurer only spell which would be equipped as traits.
I'm not too worried about shock spikes and stoneskin as these are more situational.
Buffs that last a bit longer
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04-19-2011, 05:05 AMJinko
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04-19-2011, 05:17 AMVydarrTyr
Along those same lines, I would like Skull Sunder to do 1 million points of damage, and make the mob explode. Or at least get shot into outer space. :D
The reason buffs only last 5 minutes is to make you recast. When you're doing difficult fights that last longer than 5 minutes -- like NMs -- the mage has to pay attention to when the buffs wear off and re-buff mid-fight. If you make the buffs last 30 minutes, mages will never have to worry about re-buffing mid-fight. They'll just be spamming heal and occasionally throwing up DoTs. This at least forces them to pay attention.
There's also an element of strategy to it. Casting buffs generates hate, which threatens to pull aggro away from your tanks. Making it so mages don't have to re-buff mid-fight takes that element of strategy away. And one of the big complaints posted all over the boards is that people think the fights don't have enough strategy.
That's also why I think this is a bad idea:
If they auto-refresh in the middle of a fight, then that could potentially auto-grab aggro. Which you don't want.Quote:
Buffs like stoneskin would auto-refresh on all players every 3 minutes or so.
It's not like they're asking you to balance your checkbook. It's two button presses every five minutes. It takes like 15 seconds, max, to cast all the buffs. I don't think it's too big a deal.Quote:
Not wanting to perform the same tedious task every five minutes ≠ laziness.
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04-19-2011, 05:20 AMGriss
Back when you gained skill per action the 5 minute timer on shell/protect made sense, it gave you more chances to cast it and gain skill.
I am of the opinion that the timer on those buff should have been extended when the change to static sp gain was made. -
04-19-2011, 05:21 AMJinko
So tell me VydarrTyr, why did FF11 have both buffs last more than 30 mins, sometimes an hour.
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04-19-2011, 05:38 AMVydarrTyr
I don't know, Jinko. I wasn't on the FFXI developer team. You'd probably have to ask one of them.
If your point is that FFXI had long-lasting buffs, and therefore long-lasting buffs are appropriate for all games, I have to disagree. Different games are different. And just because something was in FFXI doesn't mean it was the best possible way to do it. -
04-19-2011, 05:50 AMNaylia
Please do not increase the duration of buffs....do you want con/thm to stand around doing nothing? Actively maintaining buffs on your party while also being useful in other ways is important. The relative strength/weakness of a buff/debuff is a different issue entirely. I'd rather have meaningful buffs that require maintenance than useless buffs on long durations.
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04-19-2011, 06:16 AMRichardButteIn other words, rebuffing = maintenance, and maintenance DOES NOT BELONG IN MMOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by VydarrTyr
I have a better idea. Instead of being forced to pay attention for routine maintenance, why not be forced to pay attention because the NM could, at any time, start charging a powerful TP attack that only the CON has a spell to counter?
That's a terrible way of adding strategy to the game. Aggro management is the polar opposite of fun, as it's basically saying "How many fun things can I do before the game will punish me for it?". A better idea would be strategically using cooldowns on attacks that stun, knockback, etc. to maximize your effectiveness between trying to heal. That would add meaningful strategy to the game that's blatantly apparent instead of adding strategy to the metagame of aggro management which is a cancer on the buttocks of MMOs to start with.Quote:
There's also an element of strategy to it. Casting buffs generates hate, which threatens to pull aggro away from your tanks. Making it so mages don't have to re-buff mid-fight takes that element of strategy away. And one of the big complaints posted all over the boards is that people think the fights don't have enough strategy.
Then turn off stoneskin auto-refresh or do it manually.Quote:
If they auto-refresh in the middle of a fight, then that could potentially auto-grab aggro. Which you don't want.
It's not like they're asking you to balance your checkbook. It's two button presses every five minutes. It takes like 15 seconds, max, to cast all the buffs. I don't think it's too big a deal.
A few minor inconveniences are not reason enough to not liberate casters from the tedium of rebuffing. -
04-19-2011, 07:53 AMVydarrTyrSo, buffs should last forever? I think someone else suggested that, but I thought they were being sarcastic. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by RichardButte
Does this also apply to heals? Because constantly re-healing is such a chore. Once you're healed, they should make it so you stay healed. Don't make us do "maintenance" on heals, SE! :D
Better yet, if it's such a chore to buff, then how about we make it so that everyone starts the game fully buffed, and they stay buffed forever? So we can get rid of "maintenance" on buffs altogether. (And also get rid of buffing classes.)
Seriously, if you think buffing is tedious, then maybe don't play a buffing class.
It sounds like you're more suited to being a melee. I know several melee classes have counter-attacks that you can launch based on environmental cues. Maybe instead of turning everything into a counter-attacking class, you could play one of the counter-attacking classes.Quote:
I have a better idea. Instead of being forced to pay attention for routine maintenance, why not be forced to pay attention because the NM could, at any time, start charging a powerful TP attack that only the CON has a spell to counter?
This is a completely different discussion. Aggro management is a defining characteristic of MMOs, and has been pretty much since their inception.Quote:
Aggro management is the polar opposite of fun, as it's basically saying "How many fun things can I do before the game will punish me for it?". A better idea would be strategically using cooldowns on attacks that stun, knockback, etc. to maximize your effectiveness between trying to heal. That would add meaningful strategy to the game that's blatantly apparent instead of adding strategy to the metagame of aggro management which is a cancer on the buttocks of MMOs to start with.
Under this system that you're envisioning, how would mobs decide whom to attack? Should it be random? If you're getting rid of aggro management, we can also get rid of tank classes. So now we've eliminated buffers, tanks, and potentially healers. If we could just find a way to get rid of DPS classes, we won't need any players at all. :D
Turn off the auto-refresh and do it manually. Like I suggested. Glad we cleared that up.Quote:
Then turn off stoneskin auto-refresh or do it manually.
Casters, the only thing you have to lose is your chains! :)Quote:
A few minor inconveniences are not reason enough to not liberate casters from the tedium of rebuffing.
Honestly, the "minor inconveniences" are basic facets of MMOs, like aggro. Getting rid of those, and coming up with something entirely new, is not a "minor inconvenience."
And by making buffs last so long, you'd actually be making buffers *less* valuable. If I can get hour-long buffs, why do I need a buffer in my party? Just cast the buff, and then you can go afk while the rest of us do stuff.
If you don't want to buff, then my suggestion would be to not play a buffer class. There are plenty of other jobs that you can play. Find something you like, and go with that. -
04-19-2011, 08:36 AMJinkoWell I assure that I work my ass of in a party and I am rarely the healer, although I will buff at the start of a leve, screwed if I'm doing it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naylia
It's kind of funny how melee seem to think mages are there for their benefit, if we aren't spamming them with spells we are lazy.
FWIW I can pretty much out dmg any melee my same level perhaps with the exception of an ARC.
There is a huge difference between healing and buffing, mainly because if I heal a group and miss one person I can easily get him next time, if I cast protect/shell and miss them because the stupid asses run out of range then it irritates the shit out of me plus I can't redo it because there is a 1 minute recast timer.Quote:
Does this also apply to heals? Because constantly re-healing is such a chore. Once you're healed, they should make it so you stay healed. Don't make us do "maintenance" on heals, SE!
WTF since when was CON a "buffing class" dunno if you noticed we have nukes aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by VydarrTyr
So basically you just pigeon holed a class based on 4 spells ?
.....Quote:
And by making buffs last so long, you'd actually be making buffers *less* valuable. If I can get hour-long buffs, why do I need a buffer in my party? Just cast the buff, and then you can go afk while the rest of us do stuff.
If you don't want to buff, then my suggestion would be to not play a buffer class. There are plenty of other jobs that you can play. Find something you like, and go with that.
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04-19-2011, 08:56 AMVydarrTyrI have noticed that Conjurers have nukes. They also have buffs. In fact, they have the strongest buffs in the game. Thus, they are a buffing class. QEDQuote:
Originally Posted by Jinko