Battle High in Frontline

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Originally Posted by Matchoutch

A coordinated/competent team will get bh5 consistently no matter how many times you kill them. Can it be said about your team though?
You wipe a leading team once and the very next time you see them they are full bh5 again. With the changes at least you cannot bully a random team into not having any bh, wouldn't you complain that your team gets wiped repeatedly to the point it can't recover ?

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The only reason your team keeps getting cornered is because it’s filled with PvE rouletters wasting precious time chasing PvE objectives instead of controlling fights.
The meta has changed.
Time to update your firmware.
The first 10 minutes are basically pure PvP now.
Objectives only start becoming a major factor during the later half of the match.
That old “let them fight” mentality never truly worked.
It was just something PvE rouletters kept clinging to throughout the previous patch because they didn’t want to adapt to actual PvP pressure.
This patch?
That playstyle is dead.
Buried, nailed shut, and thrown a hundred feet underground.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

Pretty sure a team doing literally double the damage of another is going to stomp no matter what. Especially since you can no longer remove said buff in the first place.
Battle high is at least playable when you can remove it from a player, but it's still a bad concept. Getting more points from actually pvping is good instead of the pve slogfest for 20 minutes.
But with battle high being unable to be removed it's become a joke. Hopefully the guy actually doing this doesn't have changes as braindead as this in pve, but I guess we'll find out the hard way together won't we?

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Same here, the meta has clearly changed.
Any team wasting the first 10 minutes chasing PvE objectives is basically self selecting for 3rd place at this point.
I played another 7 matches today, and I still haven’t seen a single completely one sided stomp match yet.
Honestly, I would say Primal adapted to the new meta pretty quickly.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

The only reason your team keeps getting cornered is because it’s filled with PvE rouletters wasting precious time chasing PvE objectives instead of controlling fights.
The meta has changed.
Time to update your firmware.
The first 10 minutes are basically pure PvP now.
Objectives only start becoming a major factor during the later half of the match.
That old “let them fight” mentality never truly worked.
It was just something PvE rouletters kept clinging to throughout the previous patch because they didn’t want to adapt to actual PvP pressure.
This patch?
That playstyle is dead.
Buried, nailed shut, and thrown a hundred feet underground.

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Surely a team doesn't get hard focused because of any other reasons (sometimes even without reason as you can be second place and the third place goes out of their way to attack your team), surely.

You've read my example as if I was talking about a team that was afk all match long, you do pure pvp half of the match, then you get hard focused, you lose half of your score, and you no longer have bh while the two other teams are still at your doors (with now bh5). Alright then go ahead and kill all those bh5 with your bh1-2.

So, if I understand your "first 10 minutes are basically pure PVP now" correctly, the bh changes are good since you can just go even on your own and get a few last hits on players to steal bh and more often than not some players might even follow.

I'm not sure why you're saying that the meta has changed though, the meta always was to get bh as fast as possible, it did not change and hopefully never will.

There isn't really any new meta, always has been fight the enemy teams aggressively and control territory. You only need one casual behind to capture nodes under your umbrella.

https://i.imgur.com/DmKtnGh.jpeg

Let them fight worked before they increased movement speed in pvp. You couldn't disengage move across the map and farm the first place team fast enough. Now that you can basically be at any point on the map in seconds. has changed that. In HW's you could not cross the whole map of seal rock before objectives spawned, on shatter you could solo small ice for 50 points by being over on that side of map before anyone else could get there. Lets not pretend like there wasn't a reason people played the pve version on frontlines at one time it worked.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Let them fight worked before they increased movement speed in pvp. You couldn't disengage move across the map and farm the first place team fast enough. Now that you can basically be at any point on the map in seconds. has changed that. In HW's you could not cross the whole map of seal rock before objectives spawned, on shatter you could solo small ice for 50 points by being over on that side of map before anyone else could get there. Lets not pretend like there wasn't a reason people played the pve version on frontlines at one time it worked.

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The complete lack of logic in this post just baffles me...

1. It's a PvP duty. There is zero excuse for refusing to PvP in a PvP duty. If you queue for it, you do it. Plain and simple.
If I were to queue for a PvE duty and refuse to use any skills, resorting only to basic attack, I would be kicked without hesitation for griefing. Yet players think this same lack of effort is perfectly acceptable in PvP?

2. You're going back 10-years in your example. Believe it or not, but things change a lot over the space of 10-years! To apply your excuses to a PvE scenario:

In the Crystal Tower alliance raids, multiple stack markers are gathered together and stacked. It worked back then, right? Now go and try the same thing in pretty much any other duty and see where it gets you. :o

Funnily enough, players are perfectly able to adapt to these changes when it comes to PvE. There's no difference to adapting in PvP - the only contrast being a lack of player effort.

There is zero excuse for what is very obviously poor, passive play and a 'who cares?' attitude.

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Originally Posted by Valence

There isn't really any new meta, always has been fight the enemy teams aggressively and control territory. You only need one casual behind to capture nodes under your umbrella.

https://i.imgur.com/DmKtnGh.jpeg

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The Frontline meta has definitely changed because the balance between PvE objectives and PvP pressure shifted heavily in Patch 7.5.

Before 7.5:
Battle High functioned more like a snowball reward system that could still be reset by killing strong players.
The core combat logic revolved around preserving Battle Highh.
Match pacing punished overextension, rewarded coordinated bursts, and created constant momentum swings between the three GC
Winning alliances usually succeeded by building early Battle High advantages and protecting their BH4/BH5 players.
At the same time, coordinated teams actively hunted enemy high BH targets because wiping a stacked alliance could completely swing the match.
Strong players were valuable but killable.
Eliminating them weakened the enemy alliance significantly.

After 7.5:
Battle High effectively became a permanent scaling system that heavily rewards nonstop aggression.
Since death no longer removes BH, aggressive players lose far less momentum, and reckless engages are much less punishable than before.
The entire incentive structure shifted toward constant fighting, sustained pressure, and farming BH as quickly as possible.

The immediate visible impact is pretty obvious:
If your alliance spends the first 10 minutes hard focusing PvE objectives, you’re basically defaulting yourself into a losing position.
The patch also made weak links far easier to identify. Players who are leeching, AFKing, botting, or refusing to engage stand out immediately because the new pacing rewards active participation much more heavily than before.

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Originally Posted by Matchoutch

So, if I understand your "first 10 minutes are basically pure PVP now" correctly, the bh changes are good since you can just go even on your own and get a few last hits on players to steal bh and more often than not some players might even follow.
I'm not sure why you're saying that the meta has changed though, the meta always was to get bh as fast as possible, it did not change and hopefully never will.

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Read my previous post.
It already answers your question.
If your alliance spends the first 10 minutes hard focusing PvE objectives, you’re basically defaulting yourself into a losing position.
Patch 7.5 heavily rewards nonstop PvP aggression, and the new changes actually do help mediocre players establish a stronger presence against experienced players.
But like a double edged sword, it also makes weak links far easier to identify: people who AFK, leech, bot, or refuse to participate stand out immediately now.

And honestly, for players on the GC sitting in 2nd place and behind in Battle High, of course they going to prey on the 3rd place GC if they visibly look PvE-oriented.
They are going to farm them for kills and assists to build enough Battle High before taking a real fight against the 1st place GC.
That’s just how the current meta works.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Let them fight worked before they increased movement speed in pvp. You couldn't disengage move across the map and farm the first place team fast enough. Now that you can basically be at any point on the map in seconds. has changed that. In HW's you could not cross the whole map of seal rock before objectives spawned, on shatter you could solo small ice for 50 points by being over on that side of map before anyone else could get there. Lets not pretend like there wasn't a reason people played the pve version on frontlines at one time it worked.

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That’s a very outdated way of thinking that dates all the way back to the old Battle Fever system in ARR.
The mentality only survived through the 3.x era and onward because PvE players needed something to cling to in Frontline without fully engaging with the PvP side of the mode.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

I really wish I could watch the gameplay of people who complain about GNB and VPR in FLs.

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Going offtopic. Here, feel free to browse my youtube channel, I would suggest going from Popular videos:
https://www.youtube.com/@feedmetofu

Viper Rework:
-55% Damage Taken -5% Damage Dealt (5% decrease on both)

Gunbreaker Rework:
-50% Damage Taken (5% decrease is enough)

Bravery Rework:
Increases damage dealt by 25%, and reduces damage taken by 25%.
Potency is halved when cast on other players OR Cannot be cast on other players
(synergy is good, we need to encourage it, so i'd rather it be halved at first)

Back on topic: BH change

I already said during 7.5 discussion that I don't like BH change. My biggest problem with it is that it makes the mode simpler and so it's more boring.
I also think that EXP/Tome reward scaling should go off BH at the end of the match - there is no excuse not to have BH5 every game.


[edit]
With % change I am just going by feel, after playing both classes a little bit - by no means an expert on them. Gunbreaker will still be tanky, but wouldn't stand out from other tanks as much. I am not fully sure on decrease damage dealt on viper, but damage taken needs to be reeled in. I think the class would still feel good with minor nerfs, and take the edge off. Bravery pocketing will still happen, but it would just be a bit less obnoxious.