Infrequent windows for fish are good, Purse of Riches is too much

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Originally Posted by Fruity_Snacks

Legendary fish already exist and are already a classification of fish - that is, they are the last fish added in the expansion in the X.55 (or equivalent) patch. Ruby Dragon, Opabinia, Namitaro, Cinder Surprise, Unconditional, Shonisaurus - these are all legendary fish. They do not need their own achievement.

Additionally, why? What value does a separate achievement for "long downtime" fish provide? What does it do? What would you define as a long downtime fish? The achievements themselves are fine as-is.

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I'm going to repost something I said earlier:

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Originally Posted by Stelle

Edit: I dont think I was clear on what I meant when I brought up the idea of legendary fishing. I don't want Purse to be separate from Big Fishing, but if XIV decides to continue with intentionally increasing rarity of fish by making them significantly less accessible to the average fisher I think I'd like them to put those fish in their own category outside of Big Fishing, but idk. Purse is unlike any other fish we've experienced so far so it's new ground.

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Again, I understand that I was unclear, but as I’ve stated a couple times I am not interested in a separate category simply because a fish has a long downtime. The achievements themselves are fine. I am concerned about XIV using Purse to test the waters with how much downtime they can put between windows and if we'll be seeing more fish with longer average downtimes. The time between windows, an average of 19.5 real world days, makes this fish significantly less accessible to the average fisher because of it's downtime alone. And that's not taking it's rarity/catch rate which I have no idea what that is.

The reason I brought up .5 and .55 fish was because I was discussing how long it can take to catch a fish even if a fish is up more frequently and difficulty/rarity because difficulty/rarity was being discussed. The other reason is because looking at a fish with more downtime impacts other aspects of fishing including rarity and accessibility. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone to be concerned with how long a fish will take them to catch, especially when they’re being time-gated by months at a time. And it’s not like fishers who have full time jobs and irl responsibilities are unfamiliar or automatically resentful with the fact that fishing may take them longer than someone else who works from home or is unemployed. I think there can be longer windows between windows or other ways to increase the rarity of fish without causing as much frustration and strife within the fishing community.

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Originally Posted by Fruity_Snacks

I'm also seeing a lot of comparing Purse of Riches to the likes of Ruby Dragon or Cinder Surprise within the context of 'taking ""years"" to catch'. I'm also seeing this comment a lot about 'oh it's only .4 what horrors will the .5 fish bring???'

The former comment is not a great comparison to make. There has been 0 (ZERO) indication or evidence that Purse of Riches will reach anywhere near the level of length as Ruby or Cinder might take even in the usually exaggerated timelines people give (as is tradition with fishing, "years" to catch fish is rarely if ever actually 'years'). It's an empty equivalency.

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I think with more challenging and rare fish (like .5 and .55 fish or even blue-backed ocean fish, there is an expectation that those fish can and probably will take longer to catch even if you go to every window.

For Sidereal, it took me about a stack of stardust & 6 months of actively fishing. I was able to make most windows at the time. A friend of mine took about 3 times longer when you don't include breaks and well over a stack of stardust. Placodus I think took me around 8 months? However, I do know people who have spent literal years trying to get Cinder, Ruby, and Whale. Cabinkeep despite not having a low bite rate and a ton of uptime still took me about 300 casts to catch. Meanwhile someone else I knew caught every single big fish that was currently available within a few months. Yes, some people joke how long it's taken them to catch a fish, but for others that is their lived experience.

I mentioned these fish just to point out luck. Uptime, downtime, rarity, etc. At the end of the day, it boils down to luck sometimes.

I have a friend who’s first 3 Purse attempt windows are April, August, November/December. Normally I’d say catching a fish within 3 windows is great! But a time commitment of 15 minutes over 11 months isn’t so great imo. I understand why someone would be frustrated about that. Even if the fish isn’t difficult to catch, that’s still more time invested into one fish than any fish I’ve personally fished for. It would have nothing to do with a lack of effort, skill, or or even bad luck unless you consider having a job bad luck.

Luck, good or bad, is also a huge part of the fishing experience imo and hard to separate. I go into fishing knowing it’s a balance of time commitment, knowledge, and luck and I enjoy that about it. Good luck on a fish like Purse could still be a huge time commitment for fishers, but bad luck on Purse could be devastating.

Maybe I’m being overly concerned over the experience of a few and the idea of a theoretical issue. I apologize for getting off topic and discussing how infrequency impacts other aspects of fishing instead of focusing on infrequency itself and potential alternatives. It wasn’t my intention to derail your conversation T-T

Just to echo everyone here I am in agreement that what feels like excessive downtime between windows is not good for the job.

I got into big fish fishing when I decided I wanted to fill out my fishing log. As I slowly worked my way through I'd focus for a bit then I'd take a break. I never felt like I was missing out on anything because there was always another fish. Always another window. Now I'm basically caught up with fishing. I'm just missing two fish right now and only one am I concerned about. That's Purse of Riches. Not because it seems like it will be hard to catch but because I'm not sure when I get to catch it. I've experienced waiting for a fish who took a vacation. I had to wait a month once I realized more about fishing for an attempt at Bobgoblin Bass. That was fine I knew I'd get a chance and if I didn't get a catch? The next window was not that far off. Looking at when Purse is up I get an attempt this month as the time the window is open works with my life and I can go however looking at further windows only a window in May works around a healthy sleep schedule for my time zone and not interfering with anything else. I can only imagine how that looks for others are affected.

Infrequent windows to make a fish rare isn't the way to do it. If they had wanted a rare weather condition? I think it being up anytime there was that weather conditon would have been better or at the VERY least having the fish up for much longer then 5 real minutes. These kind of horror stories don't inspire new fishers if anything it might scare them away. I heard about Ruby Dragon, Warden of the Seven Hues, Lancetfish and Cinder Surprise I wasn't intimidated that they were rare bites, took time to prepare or had longer time between when I could attempt them. I got excited at trying for them and when I caught them I felt triumphant. Now I'm just praying my luck is good for purse so I don't have to worry that it will take a year to catch not because it's a challenge but because I can't get to a window.

the fish currently counts towards no achievement and has virtually no benefit. There will be a new fishing title in half a year and that gives more than enough opportunities to catch it

its a straight catch and it only needs the lowest amounts of layers of rng to get (simply bite and dont escape). There are much worse fish to get than this one, which 80% of people will most likely get 1st try

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Originally Posted by Fruity_Snacks

What alternatives to infrequent fish would be good to see (or have already been seen) in the future?

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I'd personally like to see fish that make more use of refresh. It's a really neat mechanic to extend intuition lengths that I've made use of in other contexts, like with the Fabled Legends in Ocean Fishing, but I don't think there's really any fish in Dawntrail yet that capitalize on its introduction. Perhaps that will be introduced with the legendaries in the .5 patch, but it would be neat to see it on non-legendaries as well. We've had three intuition fish introduced in Dawntrail already in Shin Snuffler, Esperance Carp, and Gigagiant Snakehead, and if their windows weren't so short I think they could have been great candidates to see that mechanic at play.

I also really like that they've been having us use the lures for fish like Thunderswift Trout and Datnioides Aeroplanos. It's a really interesting way to mix things up without deviating too much from the standard straight cast you typically see. It's relatively minor but it does add an extra element of GP management since you'll be spending about 60 GP per cast in addition to 100 if you chum. It's not that extra challenging but I think the fact that only 6(?) Big Fish thus far make use of it is a shame. I'd love to see more!

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Originally Posted by RareBirdAlert

We haven’t had an always-up big fish since Shadowbringers. ARR through Shadowbringers, there were big fish with no window conditions. Often these fish hate rarer bite rates and/or a high chance of slipping the hook, to compensate for the constant availability. I enjoy the combination of always up with a high slip rate, like Dammroen Herring or the Matriarch. It’s nice to have a fish that I can attempt whenever I have the time for it, and if I decide to take a break from my attempts, I can come back whenever I want, whenever is convenient for me, to continue.

I would far rather have another Dammroen Herring, always available and voraciously snapping up my premium scrip bait only to have a 90% or greater chance to slip, than a fish like Purse of Riches, that is a straightforward fishing experience that I can only go for a handful of times in a year.

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Also more of this please yes yes. Dammroen Herring might be my enemy but the sense of achievement I got when I finally caught it was almost as much as when I caught a Legendary.

EDIT: I'd also like to state for the record that when attempting Purse of Riches's window tonight, I only had it bite once and it slipped. Just like I predicted it possibly could in my initial post about this.

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Originally Posted by NobleJanobii

All I feel is an extreme sense of fear and dread at the prospect that Purse of Riches slips from my grasp or never even bites, meaning that I would have disrupted my entire sleep cycle for nothing, and would have to do it all again a month later for another shot at it before August.

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This means without violating my usual sleep schedule, I would have no means to attempt Purse of Riches again for six months. All Big Fish have a 15% chance to escape so there is literally nothing that could be done about this, and I think that really highlights why its infrequency is a problem. While the windows coming up are likely more accessible to people outside NA, which is very fair considering this is an international game, this sort of thing could easily happen to an international player in EU, JP, or OCE when a batch of windows occurs that are inconvenient to them. When windows are a rarity, things like slips or simply not biting actively punish the player for things completely out of their control, and now I'm faced with either waiting half a year at another attempt (which could easily result in this same situation meaning I'd have to wait another three months at an attempt), or getting up at horrible hours just to attempt it.

That isn't fun. That isn't engaging. It's frustrating.

EDIT 2: Got up at 5 AM and didn't even have a nibble from it this time. Just adding to re-echo my sentiments and prove the points I've laid out above and in my original post.

Tonight was the second Purse window I was able to make, my first being the initial window it was discovered in, and between those two I only had it bite once tonight, at the very end of the window. I was lucky to catch it, but the overall vibes were... frantic, knowing that the next reasonable time I'd be able to make would be in another month following this already past month of downtime. There was no dopamine hit I usually get when I successfully catch a big fish (especially one as notorious as Purse has become), just a sense of exhaustion that I shouldn't be feeling on my second attempt ever.

I personally love downtime kings like Bobgoblin, but when a normie big fish has the potential to be unavailable for consecutively 1/4 of a year, not even including multiple month-long downtimes prior to that, it becomes very unreasonable and not as relaxing or fun as fishing should be.

Third window just complete. Not even a bite. It's really stupid to have a fish that shows up so rarely and when it finally is up it doesn't even bite

I recently started fishing and I know everyone enjoys different aspects of fishing, but I really struggle to see the appeal of long downtimes combined with low catch rates. It doesn’t make me feel like I need skill to catch them, just hope I get lucky with the layers of RNG stacked on top of each other. I'd rather the skills do more and actually take effort to catch it than rely purely on RNG.

I’m personally not upset about missing Purse because I’ll get it eventually. But I do think fishing is really unfriendly to a lot of players. I get that they can’t use fixed windows because of regional timing, but I don’t think the current approach is actually that fun. A lot of people I speak to don't go "Omg yay" they rather go "Omg finally it's over." I think RNG is fine in moderation, but when people say it took them years to get a single fish, that makes me feel like the system might be a little too much.

And the real‑life fishing argument I keep seeing used doesn’t really convince me about why it's even needed in the first place. We’re catching giant fish in small puddles, prehistoric animals and sharks with a flimsy fishing rod. Realism has long gone out the window.
Maybe they could tweak Fish Eyes to cost less GP and last longer that way atleast some of the older fish are a little easier. But right now, I don't know. It seems very difficult for someone to want to start their fishing journey and see six expansions of rare fish of which some have insanely long downtime windows or hearing multiple people say "This fish took me years." about multiple fish.

I'd like to echo the sentiment already captured by previous posters. I'm an adult, I work a 9-5 office job, I want to maintain a healthy relationship with this game such that I can enjoy it without it negatively affecting my sleep, health, or day to day life. I have a lot of fun fishing and I've made really good friends through helping others and them helping me. Even if this design was intentional, I don't think it's achieving the desired results across the playerbase. This game is a monthly subscription, and due to the design of this fish, you may go an entire subscription period without being able to interact with this fish. And I fully recognize that its designed to be a rare fish, however, this is simply hostile. There's 19 windows left in 2026, and the window lasts 5 minutes. So there's 135 minutes that this fish is catchable for the rest of the year. Nothing else in this game behaves like this. Prior to this fish, you'd have multiple opportunities per month, or per subscription period, to access the other rare fish. FFXIV usually prides itself in being accessible, and time gating to this degree is uniquely anomalous. I've observed an incredible amount of vitriolic frustration from other players who find this fish so categorically inaccessible that it's souring their opinion of this aspect of the game. Which, while hyperbole exists throughout the internet, in this regard it feels justified given that players feel like they're being denied an opportunity to engage with the game.

So I offer 3 suggestions:

1. Extend the duration of the window, 5 minutes is too short. If the window only appears once a month at least give us 20 minutes
2. Make the Purse of Riches exceedingly common during the window. I've attended 3 windows and haven't caught this fish. If the windows only appear for 5 minutes every month then the achievement of this fish is simply being able to attend it.
3. Add a second weather transition. This is basically just asking to make the fish appear more often. Clouds and Rain are the 2 most infrequent weather states in Tulliyolal, which is directly contributing to the rareness of this fish.

https://i.imgur.com/pBKkevR.png

I was lucky to be able to catch Purse of Riches near the end of the first window last evening (NA timezone), and didn't have to break my rule about waking up early for a fish to attend what would have been a 4:00am window for me. But my opinion remains that opportunities to catch this fish are too infrequent. With a more frequently available fish, it's less impactful to be missing windows due to work, sleep, or simply having something else you'd rather do. But with Purse of Riches, it feels like there is far more pressure to prioritize this fish, because of how long it might be before another attempt can be made, and I don't enjoy how that makes me feel, or how that makes fellow fishers feel.

This is a straight-catch fish that's somewhat shy and perhaps a bit slippery based on early numbers, with no intuition requirements, no need to fish skillfully for mooches, no special technique highlighting the use of Ambitious Lure for a clear advantage, no real strain on your GP if you maximize your resources ahead of time. And it is generating this much discussion, most of it negative. I'd rather see Dawntrail fishing be talked about for the amazing changes it brought to our fishing kit and how much fun they are because Ambitious/Modest Lure and Swimbait make fishing so active and engaging. Instead the conversation is dominated by a fish that is the opposite of engaging because of its downtime and lack of demand on kit usage. Unfortunately I think Purse of Riches will continue to be a large part of the Dawntrail fishing story, because even non-fishers are starting to hear about the "insane downtime rare fish," let alone the conversation it's sparked among the fishing playerbase.