Why is paladin the only job now that deals 20% reduced damage?

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Originally Posted by DolphinsFan

If a 4 stack wants to go around griefing single people, there are plenty of jobs that can do it more effectively than pld.

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4 Stack PLDS can just infinitely cover each other, and with sustain from Holy Spirit + Sacred Claim debuff restoring health on hits, it's far more grief than a 4x WAR/DRK/GNB group since it's a heavy stall setup that can constantly get in your way, and still survive when focused with a heavy amount of resources due to how tanky PLDs can be.

In any case, if you are wanting to specifically pad damage it's going to be very difficult on PLD considering it's so supportive in nature, you'd have to pretty much neglect your role in securing kills. The damage boards in FL are still largely ruled by which ranged player was throwing out all their spells the most.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

4 Stack PLDS can just infinitely cover each other, and with sustain from Holy Spirit + Sacred Claim debuff restoring health on hits, it's far more grief than a 4x WAR/DRK/GNB group since it's a heavy stall setup that can constantly get in your way, and still survive when focused with a heavy amount of resources due to how tanky PLDs can be.

In any case, if you are wanting to specifically pad damage it's going to be very difficult on PLD considering it's so supportive in nature, you'd have to pretty much neglect your role in securing kills. The damage boards in FL are still largely ruled by which ranged player was throwing out all their spells the most.

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I genuinely do not know when or where you are playing where four stacks of pld's are running rampant being a menace to society. I have seen machinist stacks, monk stacks, and warrior stacks ruin people's days but never paladin stacks. Regardless, as I've said before, paladin's strengths as a support are greater in cc than in frontlines, and the tradeoff is already built into its kit. I do not think paladin should constantly be topping the boards. I do think that the damage penalty is excessive and makes the class feel bad to play.

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Originally Posted by DolphinsFan

I genuinely do not know when or where you are playing where four stacks of pld's are running rampant being a menace to society.

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In Frontlines, where people can stack any class they want be it SCH, WHM, MCH, DRK, DRG I've seen all the variety already and is a factor that comes in to play - when people were stacking SCH for bio spreading constantly, what happened ? They had their damage nerfed. Same with people stacking WHMs for death beams, and AST macrocosmos bombs in the DRK meta. While it doesn't resolve the issue entirely it at least discourages stacking to some degree and keeps it toned down.

Even with the damage penalty removed, PLD's kit is going to struggle due to how it works in the first place. PLD is an enabler, it enables life and also the possibility to deal great damage - this isn't a unique thing that only shines in CC.

By the way, I'm not against removing the damage penalty since those are annoying in general, just describing the class function versus the goal you are trying to achieve.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

In Frontlines, where people can stack any class they want be it SCH, WHM, MCH, DRK, DRG I've seen all the variety already and is a factor that comes in to play - when people were stacking SCH for bio spreading constantly, what happened ? They had their damage nerfed. Same with people stacking WHMs for death beams, and AST macrocosmos bombs in the DRK meta. While it doesn't resolve the issue entirely it at least discourages stacking to some degree and keeps it toned down.

Even with the damage penalty removed, PLD's kit is going to struggle due to how it works in the first place. PLD is an enabler, it enables life and also the possibility to deal great damage - this isn't a unique thing that only shines in CC.

By the way, I'm not against removing the damage penalty since those are annoying in general, just describing the class function versus the goal you are trying to achieve.

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I am glad you can agree how frustrating having damage be reduced feels. I do not want the damage penalty removed. I just want paladin to not be singled out as the job with the highest penalty because no one has ever complained about it doing to much damage in frontlines. That its kit is designed around enabling is all the more reason that the penalty is ridiculous. All it does is make the solo queue experience more miserable than it should be.

Gigachad Paladins are too strong so Yoshida has to give us these artificial limiters so we don't don't warp everything around us being the best.

This wasn't my thread but I am still bumping it because it annoys me we have this damage penalty in FL for no reason.

BUMP for justice and because pally dmg is very bad in CC!

Shield smite should be an off global if you ask me...Because of the ridiculous delay PvP has nowadays, 1s will pass before you see an enemy with guard, if you used a weapon skill, well great, wait another 2s - so you are at 3s of Guard buff, 2s remaining and you can cut short the final 1-2s if you are lucky and in range with that skill. Not so great...barely beneficial.
Often players cancel their guard before it runs out to be less predictable, to not be cc directly when they come out, to be able to use recuperate.
Paladin will be much more useful with that ability to be used whenever...

Imperator delay is still so huge though...And the amount of times I covered and guarded myself only for the target to die 2-3s later from "late dmg". The whole decision making progress is ruined because of this delay in CC. You often die because you used 1 ability 4 GCD's before, when you technically already had to press your panic button while nothing was happening. It doesn't make sense. And you are too often hit by abilities that weren't even aimed at you, making your situation worse than you expected, just by the power of luck and rng it has been decided.
The skill of "reaction time" has been extremely devalued with this current PvP mode. I don't enjoy playing it seriously. And I probably won't.
It is weird to think that old PvP seasons had better netcode feeling than the newest, at least from my memory. I was able to press so many offglobals at once...Now impossible.

Also feel like its missing a range skill like shield lob. The detriment of having only so few abilities in a PvP mode I guess... Niche abilities that are really useful in some situation simply dont exist. You only have stun and nothing else, if that fails you wont be able to close distance. Gnb has 2 gapclosers, war has 2 gapclosers one of them with aoe stun and a drawin/slow, drk has 1 gapcloser and a drawin. Pld has 1 short stun with holysheltron being unreliable for the slow, I rarely hit someone with it, because of its very small radius. The skill description wont even say, I think, how big the radius is in the PvP guide. I guess its 5y only. It just takes 1 aoe and the barrier is broken. Most cases you never get the slow if enemy is nearby.

Once again, your defensive skill, is and offensive skill, is a cc skill, is a support skill. You cant do great, you cant do wrong. The philosophy of this kind of PvP.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Shield smite should be an off global if you ask me...Because of the ridiculous delay PvP has nowadays, 1s will pass before you see an enemy with guard, if you used a weapon skill, well great, wait another 2s - so you are at 3s of Guard buff, 2s remaining and you can cut short the final 1-2s if you are lucky and in range with that skill. Not so great...barely beneficial.
Often players cancel their guard before it runs out to be less predictable, to not be cc directly when they come out, to be able to use recuperate.
Paladin will be much more useful with that ability to be used whenever...

Imperator delay is still so huge though...And the amount of times I covered and guarded myself only for the target to die 2-3s later from "late dmg". The whole decision making progress is ruined because of this delay in CC. You often die because you used 1 ability 4 GCD's before, when you technically already had to press your panic button while nothing was happening. It doesn't make sense. And you are too often hit by abilities that weren't even aimed at you, making your situation worse than you expected, just by the power of luck and rng it has been decided.
The skill of "reaction time" has been extremely devalued with this current PvP mode. I don't enjoy playing it seriously. And I probably won't.
It is weird to think that old PvP seasons had better netcode feeling than the newest, at least from my memory. I was able to press so many offglobals at once...Now impossible.

Also feel like its missing a range skill like shield lob. The detriment of having only so few abilities in a PvP mode I guess... Niche abilities that are really useful in some situation simply dont exist. You only have stun and nothing else, if that fails you wont be able to close distance. Gnb has 2 gapclosers, war has 2 gapclosers one of them with aoe stun and a drawin/slow, drk has 1 gapcloser and a drawin. Pld has 1 short stun with holysheltron being unreliable for the slow, I rarely hit someone with it, because of its very small radius. The skill description wont even say, I think, how big the radius is in the PvP guide. I guess its 5y only. It just takes 1 aoe and the barrier is broken. Most cases you never get the slow if enemy is nearby.

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Endwalker PLD felt like a better thought-out kit. Intervene with stun was funny at first but having it separated into Shield Bash was a much better and versatile design. Holy Sheltron just being a defensive and not having this weird, pointless Sword/Shield Oath mechanic was just better. Your main combo actually having a purpose (Royal Authority giving a stack for Atonement) was better design.

Don't get me started on Imperator. Everything being gated behind it is bad design. Being self-stunlocked by it is bad design. Anyway PLD is extremely strong and doesn't really need buffing, but its current design philosophy is counterintuitive for a lot of reasons.

Just wanted to say thank you for listening devs <3