Why pvp is succesful and pve is getting stale

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

PVP has been always the most successful mode in multiplayer games (Dota/LOL/CS) now imagine those games but with little PVP and solely focused into PVE , people will complain a lot, probably just like today in FFXIV.

FFXIV IT'S a multiplayer game but 90% hard focuses into PVE ignoring the whole aspect of what a MMO. No matter what you do, eventually people will get tired of fighting the same monsters who barely reacts and do simon says. This game always needed some competence between players, open world pvp zones, guild wars, territory conquest etc.

But nope, let people modbeast and ERP in udalh.

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PVP is not the whole aspect of an MMO.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

PVP has been always the most successful mode in multiplayer games (Dota/LOL/CS) now imagine those games but with little PVP and solely focused into PVE , people will complain a lot, probably just like today in FFXIV.

FFXIV IT'S a multiplayer game but 90% hard focuses into PVE ignoring the whole aspect of what a MMO. No matter what you do, eventually people will get tired of fighting the same monsters who barely reacts and do simon says. This game always needed some competence between players, open world pvp zones, guild wars, territory conquest etc.

But nope, let people modbeast and ERP in udalh.

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are you really comparing an mmorpg to something like league of legends, dota, and counter strike? Games that from the get go were always going to be pvp focused?

open world pvp sucks also
games with it are always filled with people griefing low level players and ultimately end up killing the game because of it since they camp out quest objectives people need
had that happen all the time in AION and it wasn't fun getting one shot by a max level character with full PvP gear

if FFXIV had a mode like Guild War's 2 World vs World I'd be all for it, but I don't see that ever happening

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Pops means it's a fan favorite success? I have a friend called Syrcus Tower who begs to differ.

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Fair enough.

Although most casuals I speak to seem to either be neutral to it, or genuinely find it fun, even if just a little. Always hard to gauge in retrospect, and I'll also admit that I find a lot of recurring faces even in casual.

PvE is stale? are you still playing in EW?
anyway, 99% of the PvE problem in DT can sum up with 3 letters, PCT.

You find pve not stale? I'd be curious to hear why?

While I don't think the curated PvP job sets are the only reason that it gained a lot of fans from a job-design point of view but it's certainly a major point.
Jobs feeling different enough from eachother which adds to replayability through trying out different jobs.

But PvP is certainly not the only way, in fact most of us are probably used to solo play or content that focuses on coop rather than competition so you gotta look at content that might focus on exactly that (there's a reason a lot of ppl like playing support)

You could add powerful dual job-combo attacks between 2 Jobs/players for example to avoid 4xPCT, an enhanced mentor+novice relationship, individual strong limit attacks with unique effects like pvp, Bosses actually throwing even veterans off with an unpredictable attack phase, way more skill combo interaction within each job skill set, condensed simple combos to open up slots for more meaningful attacks like VPR/PCT, a longer buff sync window (make it opener and let them sync again right at the end of a nomal savage fight), remove exessivee charges on skills you don't want people to bank too much

But also PvE content that would promote cooperation like the promised yet abandoned FC content (RIP Diadem), stronger more personalized mentor+sprout relationship system, easy tools to recruit/maintain/find FCs, "individual optional Handicap Echo Support", ingame duty-VC option, Friend Assist System if you're stuck at a particular boss after 3 wipes for that particular boss, special treasure maps to stack them with other players to increase the odds/rewards


Other games do it well without PvP as well, it shouldn't be too hard for the creators of the final fantasy + dragon quest to put some creativity back into the game again

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Originally Posted by Valence

was also to lower the skill floor dramatically and increase the skill ceiling pretty high as well. Feast had an incredibly high bar of entry for any new player: you had to setup macros specific to your role, you had to seriously learn how a game of feast was supposed to play because it was all but intuitive, you had to precisely know what you were supposed to do as the role you picked and execute it to the millimeter. But once this was done, you were already in Platinum/Diamond where not everything hinged on who had the better healer anymore, and you were already close to the skill ceiling if you were able to execute your script to a T in any circumstance. This is what made Feast closer to pve than what we think, and also focused to the extreme around burst cycles, like in pve.

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I don't care so much for the different systems. But this I would disagree with, I think the skill ceilling is a lot lower now. And it feels like you are telling a range dps version from your feast experience.
Feast especially, the iterations after heavensward felt that way like you describe, because it got simplified each time.
Before that we had more job uniqueness, we had something like talenttrees to differentiate even the same job, we had more variance on how to punish and kill someone, more cc more counter more mitigations and medal overstacking wasnt such a huge issue like it was the addons later, where it was a death sentence.

I think to make PvE more interesting, they would have to get rid of making dungeons clearable by trusts, as that limits their creativity. They actively change dungeon mechanics, that were unique, to make them the same like others, so they can be cleared by bots. That is boring. Also damage output from mobs are that low that trusts can clear them, for human healers, this is just not enough to have any fun. So it is flawed up from an elemental level, which they are probably unwilling to change. Removing most abilities that are considered "niche" and did something else than flat potency damage, adds to the issue. Why do they do that? Because the devs feel like they have to remove old skills each new expac, to introduce new skills that "shake things up". So what do we need? Variation. Like PvP had in 2.x ... Talent Trees/Traits/Gear with special stats or Gear that changes what your skill actually does. I know wild? Maybe even Crossskills?? But they drifted away from that path long ago. So yeah you getting more of the same for the next 2 years at least, people pay, why change?

Unpopular Opinion: PvE feels stale, but not for the reasons most people cite. The discourse usually revolves around job identity, homogenization, Pictomancer, or simplification. But honestly, that’s not the issue for me. The real problem lies in the content formula—it’s been stagnant for years. Worse yet, the community has progressively lost incentives to play together.

While convenient, the rise of cross-world visits has chipped away at the sense of belonging to a home world. I rarely see Free Companies that actively play together anymore—most are just RP hubs or venues. And it feels like the game isn’t offering meaningful ways to engage with friends or build a sense of togetherness. You can clear content with friends, but there’s no real purpose beyond "just because."

Even the new 24-man raid, which should encourage cooperation and camaraderie, has missed the mark. Instead of fostering connection, they doubled down on systems that isolate players further. At this point, the problem isn’t simplifying or homogenizing jobs—it’s the fact that the game doesn’t give us a reason to care about the people we’re playing with. The game feels way too "me first" now, with no real reward. On top of that, we’re getting less content overall, which just makes everything feel more hollow. There’s no reason to connect with others, and it’s killing the sense of community that made the game special. PvP feels better because it has more community feeling than PvE these days.

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Originally Posted by Connor

If they put the same level of care into making jobs interesting as they did in PvP, we’d be living in an FFXIV utopia. It’d be much better than it is now at least…

They need to change something otherwise the only thing we can ever look forward to in future is more 120s cool-down finisher abilities ( vomits )

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After Fell Cleave, Feller Cleave, Fellest Cleave and Fell Cleave but oGCD, get ready for... Fellga Cleave or something.

I wasn't aware of PvP doing any better than PvE in this game. Isn't it just because you need to get to rank 25 to get that stupid modern attire glam?