Don't let dumb job changes ruin the game for you.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Yeah no, you clearly don't play from software games very much if you think they have more diverse playstyles than this game.

Also, the customization of the experience in this game is what job you pick. There are 21 unique jobs and they all play extremely differently. From software games have more builds, but less difference between the builds and only really one role. At the end of the day no matter your build in those games, you are doing light attack, heavy attack, dodge roll. Timing changes, spacing changes, that's about it.

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What a wild thing to say. I literally built an Elden Ring character who would shoot spells at themselves so that they could be reflected back at the enemy as their primary way of ealing damage. I had a different character who's primary strategy was to apply as many DoTs as possible and run away.

FFXIV on the other hand has literally zero customization. I'm not saying it necessarily needs it, but to argue otherwise is braindead. It has a right way to play, and anything outside of that is the wrong way to play.

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Originally Posted by jonimated

What a wild thing to say. I literally built an Elden Ring character who would shoot spells at themselves so that they could be reflected back at the enemy as their primary way of ealing damage.

FFXIV on the other hand has literally zero customization. I'm not saying it necessarily needs it, but to argue otherwise is braindead. It has a right way to play, and anything outside of that is the wrong way to play.

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Yeah honestly I don't see that as any different than pressing R1 while using a katana.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Yeah honestly I don't see that as any different than pressing R1 while using a katana.

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Neither build equipped a melee weapon? I don't know what to tell you. I guess you lack imagination?

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Originally Posted by jonimated

Neither build equipped a melee weapon? I don't know what to tell you. I guess you lack imagination?

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I mean it's all the same, the boss comes at you, you evade or block or parry, you respond with a suitable attack for the window.

I'm also just doing what you are doing with ffxiv in saying "there is only one way to play"

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

I mean it's all the same, the boss comes at you, you evade or block or parry, you respond with a suitable attack for the window.

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This is like saying all games on a console have only one way to play because they all use the same controller. In fact, since it's all computer code, you could argue that filling out an Excel spreadsheet is the same as playing any video game. Hell, doing anything is the same as doing anything else, because it's all just interactions between particles and energy fields.

Pointless reductionist arguments only serve to make it look like you aren't taking people seriously.

Then again, comparing XIV and Elden Ring at all is like comparing apples and squirrels.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

This is like saying all games on a console have only one way to play because they all use the same controller. In fact, since it's all computer code, you could argue that filling out an Excel spreadsheet is the same as playing any video game. Hell, doing anything is the same as doing anything else, because it's all just interactions between particles and energy fields.

Pointless reductionist arguments only serve to make it look like you aren't taking people seriously.

Then again, comparing XIV and Elden Ring at all is like comparing apples and squirrels.

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There's just far less variety in playstyle and gameplay in from software games compared to this game. That's all I am asserting.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

This is like saying all games on a console have only one way to play because they all use the same controller. In fact, since it's all computer code, you could argue that filling out an Excel spreadsheet is the same as playing any video game. Hell, doing anything is the same as doing anything else, because it's all just interactions between particles and energy fields.

Pointless reductionist arguments only serve to make it look like you aren't taking people seriously.

Then again, comparing XIV and Elden Ring at all is like comparing apples and squirrels.

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Honestly it's not even worth it, and I shouldn't have even replied to them to begin with. They've been trolling through these forums for weeks now disagreeing with literally anything and everything anyone says. Contrarian for attention is all it is. I'm fairly certain they retain an active subscription only to post on the forums and they don't actually play the game.

At this point they are just stringing words that they know together into loose excuses for sentences. Making up nonsense with no receipts.

You and everyone else here should just do what I should have done to begin with. Stick them on ignore and never look back. Don't feed the trolls is a great policy here.

i think a lot of people on this forum (and others ones) mix up complex and complicated.
Having 50 shortcuts to use is not complex but complicated.... And this should be avoided at all cost.

Now, you can get complex gameplay with only 8 shorcuts (GW1 did it 20 years ago). It's just about how skills interact with each other, the synergy....

A very good exemple is Chess : very few rules, set piece movement that can be easyly and quickly learned.... yet the game as a lot of depth and complexity and is still played a lot after many centuries of existence.

So, clearly, we don't need jobs with a 50 shortcuts rotation to have fun.... Those who like thoses type of gameplay, like complicated things, not complex one.
And simple yet complex things are far better in the long run than overly complicated things. It was proven numerous time in all kind of department (not only video game)

Exactly. Or as I like to call it, complexity should be low (10 or less buttons), while depth should be high (lots of thought needed and/or potential for personal expression and/or reflexes needed). GW1 or GW2 showed how to do it, other devs just never dare go very minimalist, which is a shame, as with so many things you're not done designing your classes when you cannot add things any more, but when you can't take anything away any more.

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Originally Posted by Lorika

i think a lot of people on this forum (and others ones) mix up complex and complicated.
Having 50 shortcuts to use is not complex but complicated.... And this should be avoided at all cost.

Now, you can get complex gameplay with only 8 shorcuts (GW1 did it 20 years ago). It's just about how skills interact with each other, the synergy....

A very good exemple is Chess : very few rules, set piece movement that can be easily and quickly learned.... yet the game as a lot of depth and complexity and is still played a lot after many centuries of existence.

So, clearly, we don't need jobs with a 50 shortcuts rotation to have fun.... Those who like thoses type of gameplay, like complicated things, not complex one.
And simple yet complex things are far better in the long run than overly complicated things. It was proven numerous time in all kind of department (not only video game)

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This is absolutely true. Many games have shown the ability to add complexity without the need for multiple hotbars worth of buttons to press. Some of my favourite games use 5-8 buttons max, but that's also because those games have added layers of meta-gameplay to work around.

The current issue is SE has shown they either aren't capable, or aren't will to do that. When they remove buttons and mechanics they don't add anything else in it's place. If SE could be trusted to add some real engaging gameplay to the job kits I would be all for reducing button bloat and amalgamating combos. As of right now though "pressing lots of buttons" is really all the jobs have going for them, and it really shows when they remove GCDs, oGCDs, and mechanics from kits (see Dragoon and Viper changes).