Crystal Tower Controversy: Should Syrcus and Labyrinth be synced to minimum iLv?

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Welp. Never thought I’d do this, but we’re necromancers now.

Do people think that Crystal Tower now needs a rework since it isn’t representative of Alliance Raids until WoD?

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I think you can boost the HP pool of the bosses so players get to see more mechanics. I've never really been bothered by it being "boring" as many claim. LotA is one of my favorite ARs from an aesthetic and variety point of view. ST is... quick. WoD is a bit dull primarily because it takes a while, and the slightly tricky mechanics are trivial once you know them. The final boss would be a lot more interesting if more mechanics appeared.

I think one of the bigger issues is the difficulty jump between CT and the later ARs. But I doubt SE will smooth that curve simply because CT is required content and the rest are not.

Min ilvl for this is defo a no-no, new players who struggle with modern content are going to cry that it's impossible to clear (at least the labyrinth and the Guardian dude in CT).

What i really would like to see is upscaled version of these raids like unreal, or some sort of criterion equivalent where you have like 4 or 5 bosses one after another with powered up OG mechanics, that would be fun. Also it would be the difficulty that FF requires right now - something between casual MSQ content and extreme trials.

But i guess it's never gonna happen, since we got Chaotic, which was heavily overtuned and had punishing mechs, making it sit between extreme and savage instead. (I personally loved Chaotic, it's great, but apparently NA doesn't agree with me). I don't mind the damage requirements for the next chaotic staying the same, but they really shouldn't add mechanics like towers in 24-man extreme level content. Or at least make them less punishing to fail.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Because let's be real here. The problem we are seeing right now with Crystal Tower is the fact that Crystal Tower is steamrolled to the point it might as well be a misrepresentation of Alliance Raids as a whole.

However, a lot of pushback I tend to get whenever I bring up minimum iLv Crystal Tower with my friends is "It'll be too hard! It's required by the story otherwise people are going to get gated!"

Yet look at Dawntrail's dungeons. Have people been dissauded and unable to progress MSQ because of the dungeons themselves? No. The World of Darkness is the only piece of Crystal Tower content that isn't Steam Rolled into oblivion by overgearing, not to mention Syrcus Tower has mechanics that are COMPLETELY SKIPPED(Daybreak on Scylla, Platforms on 2nd Boss, DPS Check on Xande being extremely trivial).

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Absolutely they have! It's a serious problem contributing to the decrease in player count.

That said, I completely agree the CT raids have been rendered pointless by overgearing. Going all the way to min-ilvl strikes me as a bit much, but maybe increasing boss HP so we get to see more of the mechanics would be a welcome change.

Some of the mechanics increased in difficulty to cause wipes if skipped would likely fix this. For example, on the last boss I cringe every time I watch everyone take the three group stacks together into a pile. This is only done in CT, you can't do it anywhere else and if you do? You cause a wipe. I've seen SO MANY dungeons, trials etc wipe because people have brought the bad habits from CT into other places that it's gotten laughable. On the "Terrible habits from a disjointed lower level experience" bingo card, the center marker is stacking the stack markers. Wiped yesterday in an Anabaseos 8man because the healers came together and stood on each other for the stackers. One of them said "Sorry, been getting CT so much lately I forgot you can't do that." CT isn't just a bad representation of what to expect going forward, it sets new players up to fail and there are so many players now, including Mentors who scoff at bothering with the mechanics and ridicule anyone for mentioning them that seasoned players in CT keep their mouths shut and let it happen. I won't lie, if someone dips out when I zone in to CT on an alliance raid que? I leave, I HATE CT, I detest how bad it is and how much other players ignore everything in there and lead new players to learn the wrong ways to react to mechanics. It sort of sickens me every time I'm in there and Labyrinth of the Ancients isn't any better. Also a faceroll raid where new players learn terrible habits. CT should be either updated so those mechanics cause wipes if they're done wrong, or kick it to the MSQ since it's needed for storyline.

Just give them the ilevel sync they did with the Ultima Weapon, that'd take care of it. You'd have to do the mechanics, but it's not gonna cause many wipes.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

The final boss would be a lot more interesting if more mechanics appeared.

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Bring back the woooorms SE, please I beg of you

Normal Raids Roulette starts at 60 and Alliance Raid Roulette should too. Crystal Tower Raids should be in the MSQ roulette now that's it's mandatory. It also needs to be reworked to be functional and engaging. The design philosophy for those raids when they were made is so far removed from the current direction the game is moving in. They desperately need more ground aoes to keep players moving. There is so much nothing to be done in most of those fights and it's insane.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

Normal Raids Roulette starts at 60 and Alliance Raid Roulette should too. Crystal Tower Raids should be in the MSQ roulette now that's it's mandatory. It also needs to be reworked to be functional and engaging. The design philosophy for those raids when they were made is so far removed from the current direction the game is moving in. They desperately need more ground aoes to keep players moving. There is so much nothing to be done in most of those fights and it's insane.

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True. The design philosophy back then was far more interesting.

Ive done all of the Alliance raids "MiNE" Min-itemlevel No Echo and it was really not much different from doing them normal. Pretty much the ShB raids were a little more fun as people died to almost any AoE.

But like said in this Thread, its not really about itemlevel, its about us being already powerful due to our kits.

Also i did some extremes MiNE without jobstones, same with normal trials MiNE without jobstones, Stormblood trial 1 for example killed a lot more people on release and with the bunch of sprouts i had for my masochistic runs we kind of didnt even get below half HP for the Aerial Blast. Shadowbringers trial 1 had us sweat a little on the enrage and during adds as we just took much longer.

Also its funny that Garuda normal (on MiNE no jobstones) was harder than the extreme for the people i gathered

If they did that no one would clear them in roulette because of the old encounter design. You think people know how to fight Behemoth for real? Or Glaslya? There can still be wipes to Angra Mainyu even though its mechanics are more in line with what we have today. No, what would happen is people would get Labyrinth in roulette, wipe to Bone Dragon 3 times then people would start leaving. Is it boring now? Yeah. But at the end of the day, the majority of people just want their alliance exp and tomes without having to think too hard. That's why people used the gear swap exploit to get Crystal Tower when you could still do that.