A shortage? Are you serious? (endgame dt spoilers)

Correction to the OP.... There is Wood. Because they have trees. Within District 9 there are tree, outside of District 9 there are trees with Lightning Aspects growing in the settlements.

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Originally Posted by Alchemii

Correction to the OP.... There is Wood. Because they have trees. Within District 9 there are tree, outside of District 9 there are trees with Lightning Aspects growing in the settlements.

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Yes, but good luck building houses out of the 5 dubiously-safe trees in the Outskirts and the handful of decorative shrubs inside of Everkeep.

Wandering around Heritage Found, there are no old growth forests, or trees at all, outside of these locations.

(Unless I missed them--kind of hard to see anything when it's dark and everything is some shade of purple or blue)

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I agree that this is one of Dawntrail's many plot points where they tell you something and then (without realizing it) show you that it was false. These people are using electrope to warm their coffee, which heavily indicates that there was no shortage, which contradicts the idea that there was a world war due to a shortage of electrope.

That said, from the information we're given, Alexandria was almost certainly not in the 12th shard. The Millala escaped from the Source to another shard during the Thunder calamity, after which their people stayed on that shard for a time; they could not have remained in a shard that had been reabsorbed into the Source. Additionally, Living Memory was still in the other shard.

That said, given the numerous plot holes in DT, I wouldn't be surprised if they explicitly tell us that Alexandria was in the 12th in a future patch. At which point I'll just shrug my shoulders and say "SLOPPY".

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Just a correction, unless Im misunderstanding things. The Milala on the source escaped to the Alexandria shard during an ice event on the source. Probably the 5th Umbral Calamity. The 2nd Umbral Calamity was the Thunder aspected event. This happened on the source before the 5th. (It was the 2nd, and supposedly on the 12th shard). But due to timey wimey wibbily wobbley stuff it's entirely possible that the rejoining on the 12th happened AFTER the rejoining on the Ice shard (6th?) on their respective shards compared to the source.

I think its easier to envision this if you think about it from the perspective of the Milala.

So for example;
2nd Umbral Calamity happens on source and the 12th. Lightning.
5th Umbral Calamity happens on source and the 6th. Ice. Milala escape 5th Umbral Calamity by moving to the 12th.
Milala live on the 12th until a lightning event happens, which may or may not be the calamity witnessed on the source in the 2nd Umbral Calamity.

Or maybe the alexandrian shard is just the location of a shard that is still on the tipping point. Perhaps its a world that tipped itself after we defeated the Ascians with no umbral calamity involved. We really dont have enough information to dissect everything that's going on. Timey wimey.. wibbly wobbley..

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

1. There wasn't enough electrope in the 12th reflection to satisfy everyone's needs.
2. After the Storm Surge, the big lightning barrier was erected, preventing people within Alexandria from leaving.
3. Miraculously, within this lightning barrier, they not only 'found' enough electrope to fulfill all of their needs, but also to construct literally every single building and piece of infrastructure out of it, including but not limited to a MOUNTAIN-SIZED ARCOLOGY and a MASSIVE METROPOLITAN AREA exclusively constructed from the stuff?

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1) Correct, it is stated ingame that there was a shortage of Electrope. To the point of nations going to war over it. This war was named the Storm Surge, and ended with Lindblum's usage of their Electrope superweapon.

2) The dome was built as a reaction to Lindblum's superweapon causing most of the Reflection to be consumed by lightning aether. It was used as a shelter against lightning, not as a way to prevent Alexandrians from leaving. If this were the case, they wouldn't have been able to take in refugees from neighbouring countries.

3) If you've been to the Electrope Strike outpost in Heritage Found, you'll find a nearby vista explaining the nearby Crackling Chasm Point of Interest. It explains that this chasm was rent open by Lindblum's superweapon. This exposed a massive Electrope vein, one that the Alexandrians likely weren't aware of.


Whether Alexandria is from the 12th Reflection, or an entirely unknown one is still up in the air. Personally, I don't think it's the 12th Reflection, considering there's a gap of at least 400 years between the end of the Storm Surge/Dome and the actual Dimensional Fusion with the Source. This gap would make it similar to how the First was mostly covered by Light, but had not yet gone past its tipping point. It's entirely possible that the Ascian(s) in charge of this Reflection were either pulled away during the events of Shadowbringers/Endwalker, or abandonded their post, leaving a Reflection that had been primed for a rejoining.

The Umbral Calamities are what happen when a Rejoining happens... But to do one, I'm pretty sure they need both the Shard and the Source to basically be at a similarly heavily unbalanced state towards one element or aspect... Like what the Ascians tried to do with Light with the First and letting the Light and on this one with Lightning.
The 13th is a bit of a special case, as it was apparently the first one they tried to rejoin, but as they didn't know how to do it at that point and so they kind of just broke it and nearly permanently fucked it up.

As for a shortage of Electrope, yea it most certainly doesn't seem like Alexandria had any kind of shortage of the stuff... But we don't really know much about other kingdoms of their shard... One part of Ascians stirring shit up in the Shard could have involved them just giving a vast majority of the world's resources to one kingdom, Alexandria, making everyone else goto war with them.

And as a result of this war, we know Lindblum built a giant cannon, Alexandria set up a shield to block the cannon. And the cannon when fired was so powerful it blasted the shielded up Alexandria to the Source...


Also, I don't think it's the 12th, since it was the Second Umbral Calamity that rejoined it, and it was during the Fifth that the Lalafels of Aloalo escaped the ice to that Shard... While time moves at different speeds between Shards, it's time dilation not time travel.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

Yes, but good luck building houses out of the 5 dubiously-safe trees in the Outskirts and the handful of decorative shrubs inside of Everkeep.

Wandering around Heritage Found, there are no old growth forests, or trees at all, outside of these locations.

(Unless I missed them--kind of hard to see anything when it's dark and everything is some shade of purple or blue)

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None of the trees are massive sure, but given the size of District 9 alone, not just the areas we can go too but all we can see, they could easily have built a Tree Farm for the purposes of harvesting wood.

Speaking of Heritage Found, do we know yet what that large activity of lighting is that you see in the south of the map?

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

Disagree with both.
We call a Calamity, when certain events occur. Causing Disaster.

If The Flood of Light in the first didn't occur, but blackrose did.

Still a Component/Calamity Needed for a Rejoining.

It would still be a Calamity.

Rejoining is the mechanic when two calamities cause a merging of the shard and source during the same time/criteria.

Also, The idea that Flood of Light and Dark Can't Be Rejoined is kinda proving both of you wrong.

The Ascians themselves didn't know how to Rejoin the world's. Hence why the Void/13th Failed.

If they knew Dark didn't work EVER. why would they TRY with light(or Black Rose)

Simply Put.

You're Both Confusing Calamity as Rejoining.

It's like the Topic of Dynamis and LB.

(Calamity Feed Into Rejoinings. But Rejoinings themselves aren't only Calamities. aka, They are a Component, but not a PART that makes it impossible to exist after failing to Rejoin.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

then you're just wrong. I'm sorry, it's explained several times in the game, the term Calamity in FFXIV means a precise thing, and it seems you decided to give it a larger meaning. A calamity is what happens when there is a rejoining. The aether coming from the shard renforce a already existing disturbance in the source, making it a calamity. The black rose existed, but the light aether from the first shard made it a calamity, making the poison more potent (far more potent than what the empire expected), since it renforced the stagnation (Black rose made the aether of people stand still). Urianger explains it in ShB. Floods of light and darkness are not Calamities. There is no calamity linked to the 13th, and the 1st calamity ended not happening despite the flood happening. You need a rejoining to have a calamity. You're the one that confusing things, not us.



This is also false, the ascians did know how to rejoin shards, they did it 7 times (8 in the alternate timeline). It's said in ShB (by Emet-Selch, IIRC) that the first was their first attempt, and failed. But after that, they perfected the method and achieved several rejoining.
And nobody said Dark would not work ever. 7th umbral calamity is a darkness calamity - all the element in their astral alignment. Astral is a the active state, but we learn in ShB that the active state is actually linked to darkness, not light, like thought in the source.

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CNitsah is totally right. A Calamity is a Rejoning, only the Source and its scholars don't know what's happening, hence the name. We only knew what a Rejoining was in ShB. Light can be rejoined, since it happened in the alternate timeline. The only thing I'm not so sure about is the 7th being Darkness, since it was agreed it was Astral or every Astral element, which doesn't necessarily mean Darkness.

If I recall correctly, electrope lead to war between nations, because not everyone had electrope abundantly available, at least not in the amount required to keep progress going.
And this war culminated in a weapon that ultimately lead to a Calamity upon being fired.

Makes sense to me.

But... since I don't now if I remembered something wrong, better not take this for facts >.<.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Umbral Calamities are specifically the disasters on the Source when a Rejoining occurs, and a shard being consumed by Light or Dark renders it unable to be rejoined.

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Incorrect. Shards being consumed by light and dark are able to be rejoined. The problem is that the Void was the 1st attempt at this and at that moment the Ascians didn't know that they had to trigger a darkness elemental catastrophe in the Source for it to trigger a rejoining.

In the "real timeline" the first + Black Rose triggered a Light Umbral Calamity and rejoined the first. But timetravel's a thing and Graha managed to change the past.