Raiding in The Arcadion: Our Heroic Hypocrisy

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Debatable. We didn't have to make them to get equivalently powerful weapons, and the entire process is experimental, worked on in tandem by multiple individuals. Generally Gerolt and Thavnairian Alchemists.

There's even a quest after you finish an ARR relic to make the ultimate tea kettle by going through the process one more time, albeit with truncated steps. Granted I don't think that one involved atma, but I can't quite remember how far Gerolt took the process before asking for 50 Alexandrites. Then Jalzahn asks for the same materials needed from Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda, meaning this tea kettle required that the beastmen summon their primals again... Which generally entails people getting hurt and more beastmen getting tempered.

(then there's the meta fact that since XIV is a game for entertainment, we literally did make them for entertainment, and they even feature as entertainment in FF content creator achievement hunter video type stuff... Souls used for making weapons. TEN POINTS - but we'll ignore this fact because it dilutes the conversation)

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I don't know if it's fair to compare "equivalent powerful weapons" since all we had to do is wait an expansion cycle and we'd have a better one from the random blacksmith in the next town. These are meant to be special relics by the text of the game, one of a kind.

It's also difficult to assume that we have to consider all of these steps canon for every Relic because I feel that at some point I'm just strong-arming tempered Amalj'aa into summoning Ifrit yet again because daddy needs a new sword.

I'd say, that running through the questline once suggests that using souls in a limited manner wasn't that big of a deal back then. So I'd chalk it up to us either being against the massive industrialization (the planet's dyin', Cloud!) or our experiences through Shadowbringers and Endwalker changing our perspective on it, since we broadened our knowledge on the topic.

I will agree that the whole soul thing represents a huge flaw in Dawntrail's narrative. In ARR it is transparently spelled out that we harvest souls and store them in our weapon for our own benefit; these are quotes from the ARR relic quests:

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Now, as you may have already gathered, atma is essentially the crystallized soul of a living being. And these crystals hold the key to strengthening your weapon.

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Thavnairian tradition holds that the Zodiac Braves gathered light to their weapons by vanquishing formidable foes. 'Tis my theory that the heroes were in fact absorbing souls. And now, through the use of atma, your weapon has been transformed into something with the selfsame ability, and it exists as a vessel for souls. If your weapon is to realize its potential, you must have it drink deep of the souls of slain foes.

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So yeah, thinking that using souls as 1-Ups and power-ups is a violation of nature or whatever is a silly plot thread given our history.

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Originally Posted by Kaecilius

I don't know if it's fair to compare "equivalent powerful weapons" since all we had to do is wait an expansion cycle and we'd have a better one

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You didn't even have to wait an expansion cycle. All you had to do was go beat the current raid tier, most of the time.

Also I did a minor edit after I looked it up, and the tea kettle actually required the Extreme primals KIs, so it required three beastmen souls, since the ARR extremes had canonical summonings that used a priest as a sacrifice to make the primal even stronger.

The way to read repeating primal fights is that the beastmen were just at it again, because that was part of the game's lore. Still a little F'd up that the WoL is like, "Man I wanna enhance this sword(tea kettle) so bad. C'mon beastmen, do me a summoning."

Idk if I'd chalk it up to that. I'd moreso chalk it up to the writers attempting to slate the morality of the situation without really regarding what came before this narrative. I'd look for a diegetic reason, but the WoL's characterization changes depending on who's writing and what dialogue choices they want to allow players to express.

Honestly, the actual biggest point of ludo-narrative dissonance in this quest series was when Black Cat's younger sister asked us to wear a regulator so that we could come back if we died in the arena.

No you silly kitty! That's what game mechanics are for.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

we didnt kill spleen.

We watched wuk lamat kill speen

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Wuk doesn't really contribute much to the fight.

Wuk only breaks out because WE push the Queen into overclocking and drawing on reserve power etc, causing the system to error. And afterwards sure she does a limit break and does a chunk of damage, but only after we pushed the boss into the 'flail around desperately victory lap phase' like Hades, Thordan and Endsinger all had.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

'flail around desperately victory lap phase'

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That mental imagery. :'D

im fine with being a hypocrite

much like i tell people in real life, do as i say, not as i do

Did... you even read the quest text?

Our WoL is clearly not happy about how the Arcadion operates.

Ima throw my 2 gils into this and say. It bugs me were pulling a garlean tactic here an imposing our thoughts and wills unto these ppl. Yes is it f**ked up I would say yes. Just cause were trying to tell these ppl how they need to live. There a bit of irony in this story writing. I hate how this just can't be use fighting for once. The idea of your using souls nooo get that outta here and do what I tell you is really weird

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I will agree that the whole soul thing represents a huge flaw in Dawntrail's narrative. In ARR it is transparently spelled out that we harvest souls and store them in our weapon for our own benefit; these are quotes from the ARR relic quests:





So yeah, thinking that using souls as 1-Ups and power-ups is a violation of nature or whatever is a silly plot thread given our history.

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I think what’s also good to remember:

If we take those flavor texts at face value, it’s Norberto’s experts.

Sharlayan is the leading expert of the theories regarding souls and it took us till EW robhavebone of them explain their theory to us.
That old guy even tells us that it’s HIS theory and that most people think the entire soul process works differently. His theory is proven correct through the aetherial sea, void questline, Alexandria.

Gerolt and the others are not experts on that topic. They might just use it as an overall word for all the components of the aether that makes a soul.

Remember most people in Eorzea still think they will go to an afterlife of the gods. Most of them don‘t even know what a soul is.

TLDR:
The word soul could just be a relic from before they explained the whole thing or it’s on universe from people who don‘t know what a souls is.
None of them studied that object.