Dark Knight was bad even in Endwalker but

From the perspective of a healer who doesn’t really know anything about tanks I didn’t notice DRK being notably weaker than the others. I do feel like it had a fairly high disparity between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ players. Idk if it’s like more complex than the other tanks in terms of how convoluted its abilities are, but I never had a situation where I went into a dungeon or whatever and though ‘uh oh, a DRK!’.

Naturally that’s just the perspective of someone without knowledge of the abilities specifics I.e potency etc so idk how it actually compares to other tanks. But keeping them alive never felt significantly harder than other tanks to me

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Originally Posted by Connor

From the perspective of a healer who doesn’t really know anything about tanks I didn’t notice DRK being notably weaker than the others. I do feel like it had a fairly high disparity between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ players. Idk if it’s like more complex than the other tanks in terms of how convoluted its abilities are, but I never had a situation where I went into a dungeon or whatever and though ‘uh oh, a DRK!’.

Naturally that’s just the perspective of someone without knowledge of the abilities specifics I.e potency etc so idk how it actually compares to other tanks. But keeping them alive never felt significantly harder than other tanks to me

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100%

"DRK is squishy" is a player skill issue. Defensively, it's very solid, but it does require a higher degree of player skill to make effective use of its skills.

I don't think DRK needs defensive buffs, I think it needs potency buffs so that the higher effort required to play the job well is rewarded. There is no world in which a WAR should be doing more damage than a DRK, assuming equal player skill.

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Originally Posted by LoadedVirus

I want to play a DRK I really do but ... why would you? What does it actually have these days? Every other tank can do what DRK can do but better be it DPS or self heals or defensives, yes the DRK is playable and you will be able to do content with it as long as your party isn't braindead... but that doesn't mean its enjoyable unless you find fun in actively making the game harder.

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That's such an odd perspective when it comes to how the game is being played, the game can't be considered "harder" when you're just pressing the same amount of buttons as other tanks and they just take less damage, your healers will have to maybe use one more oGCD heal? at best?

If there were situations where for example DRK's mit is so bad that they have to use Living Dead while other tanks don't I would understand the making the game harder part, but that's not the case and it wasnt the case in EW either, so I still dont understand whats making it not enjoyable

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Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

That's such an odd perspective when it comes to how the game is being played, the game can't be considered "harder" when you're just pressing the same amount of buttons as other tanks and they just take less damage, your healers will have to maybe use one more oGCD heal? at best?

If there were situations where for example DRK's mit is so bad that they have to use Living Dead while other tanks don't I would understand the making the game harder part, but that's not the case and it wasnt the case in EW either, so I still dont understand whats making it not enjoyable

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Other tanks are just better.
War is a direct upgrade.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Other tanks are just better.
War is a direct upgrade.

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We just disagree on the wording then, other tanks being better does in no way mean DRK is bad

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Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

We just disagree on the wording then, other tanks being better does in no way mean DRK is bad

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IT IS .. other tanks are just better in all cases

people just forgot about clemency with paladin and BW with warrior or really anything from GNB

if you enjoy good for u that doesn't mean that DRK is even comparable with other tanks damage and mitigation

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Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

We just disagree on the wording then, other tanks being better does in no way mean DRK is bad

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Yes, it does. You are playing a downgrade of something else.
That should *never* be a thing in an mmo. Every class deserves to be good at something, Dark knight is not.
It got powercrept.

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Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

your healers will have to maybe use one more oGCD heal? at best?

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lol I have been healing since 1.0 and this has never been the case with drk. You always have to babysit them much more than any other tank to the point where I enter a dungeon, see drk and just groan to myself. Not only are the not the best tank, but they also seem to appeal to the worst tank players.

After the expac dropped I did a leveling run on heals and got Ktisis Hyperboreia with a drk tank. We didn't even make it to the first boss before I bailed. I could do no dps and practically oomed trying to keep him alive on the first pull and just couldn't do it on the second. I had to use every ability I had and he still went down, got him up and by that point I did oom and the whole party went down.

He was in aug lvl 90 gear so obviously he was just a bad tank and using no mitigations, but even when a tank is bad they are easier to keep alive than a drk. They are just hands down the worst of the 4 and SE needs to give them a few buffs to compensate.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

IT IS .. other tanks are just better in all cases

people just forgot about clemency with paladin and BW with warrior or really anything from GNB

if you enjoy good for u that doesn't mean that DRK is even comparable with other tanks damage and mitigation

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Yes, it does. You are playing a downgrade of something else.
That should *never* be a thing in an mmo. Every class deserves to be good at something, Dark knight is not.
It got powercrept.

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You guys shift your definition of what's a good tank relatively to the tools they have now, mine is much more set in stone that. To me a good tank is a tank that can wall to wall pull comfortably without putting a strain on himself or the healer.

This is not a matter of me enjoying DRK more, I play all 4 tanks. You guys are saying "not comparable" or "downgrade", those terms are correct
That it should be balanced to reach other tanks, also yes. honestly, just giving Abyssal Drain a second charge is most likely all it need to join the others in being over the top mitigation wise

But bad means you guys are really using Bloodwhetting, Heart of Corundum and Clemency to set a new standard on what is a good tank, that's a crazy concept to me, but Im not gonna argue that anymore, you guys just see things differently and thats okay

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

lol I have been healing since 1.0 and this has never been the case with drk. You always have to babysit them much more than any other tank to the point where I enter a dungeon, see drk and just groan to myself. Not only are the not the best tank, but they also seem to appeal to the worst tank players.

After the expac dropped I did a leveling run on heals and got Ktisis Hyperboreia with a drk tank. We didn't even make it to the first boss before I bailed. I could do no dps and practically oomed trying to keep him alive on the first pull and just couldn't do it on the second. I had to use every ability I had and he still went down, got him up and by that point I did oom and the whole party went down.

He was in aug lvl 90 gear so obviously he was just a bad tank and using no mitigations, but even when a tank is bad they are easier to keep alive than a drk. They are just hands down the worst of the 4 and SE needs to give them a few buffs to compensate.

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We have vastly different experiences, and again this underlines the skill issue mentioned earlier when it comes to DRK

The first DT dungeon I healed was the level 97 one, Vangard
as SCH, with a DRK tank.
Not once have come close to using Physick, or anywhere close to OOM, I always had an oGCD ready for them

And for me that means it's a good tank

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Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

The first DT dungeon I healed was the level 97 one, Vangard
as SCH, with a DRK tank.
Not once have come close to using Physick, or anywhere close to OOM, I always had an oGCD ready for them

And for me that means it's a good tank

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SCH as well, had a PLD that never used any cooldowns. Only time I had to cast GCD heals was at the all magic attack pack.
Other than that I was throwing Illumination, Protraction and Recitation during random times just to have the fun of building a big barrier and expedient to force everyone to sprint during pulling.