The new Dark Knight and Gunbreaker gap closers look AWFUL

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Originally Posted by illutian

I'm assuming they don't want the 'intercepts' to be used in DPS rotations. If that's the case, I would have just made it either 1 Potency or 10 (depending on how the formula works; might not like single-digit potency values). Then it should still generate Enmity, but not so much that you can dally about.

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I'm gonna be real. It would still be used as an oGCD. Repelling shot for bard dealt like 30-40 potency in ARR but was still used as damage oGCD just the midmax damage. Having it generate Aggro only would be the only way for it not to be used this way.

I don't think the gap closer is the main problem here..
The identity of the job currently is a bad version of warrior

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

I'm gonna be real. It would still be used as an oGCD. Repelling shot for bard dealt like 30-40 potency in ARR but was still used as damage oGCD just the midmax damage. Having it generate Aggro only would be the only way for it not to be used this way.

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I give the devs 'benefit of the doubt' when it comes to stuff like this. Like the formula probably has a damage component in it. Something like Enmity = multiplier (aka "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity" or "Tank stances") * damage done. So if the damage is '0' then the Enmity is '0', and the system probably isn't designed to do "phantom damage" (ie this ability will do 'fake damage' that the formula can use to determine Enmity values without actually doing damage).

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Originally Posted by illutian

I give the devs 'benefit of the doubt' when it comes to stuff like this. Like the formula probably has a damage component in it. Something like Enmity = multiplier (aka "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity" or "Tank stances") * damage done. So if the damage is '0' then the Enmity is '0', and the system probably isn't designed to do "phantom damage" (ie this ability will do 'fake damage' that the formula can use to determine Enmity values without actually doing damage).

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Way back in the day Paladins used to have an ability called "Flash" that did 0 damage but was able to generate enmity. So the system does in fact allow for damage-less enmity generation.
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Flash

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Originally Posted by Nicola_Kunu

Way back in the day Paladins used to have an ability called "Flash" that did 0 damage but was able to generate enmity. So the system does in fact allow for damage-less enmity generation.
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Flash

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Off topic but.
Honestly remembering that paladin basically had no bread and butter AoE until stormblood was so weird. All they really had was Circle of Scorn. It reminds me of the whole Warrior tank stance issues in ARR.
With how homogenised everything is now it's crazy to think there was an era where every tank had different ways to approach content. (Though I remember paladin being awful in dungeons.)

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Off topic but.
Honestly remembering that paladin basically had no bread and butter AoE until stormblood was so weird. All they really had was Circle of Scorn. It reminds me of the whole Warrior tank stance issues in ARR.
With how homogenised everything is now it's crazy to think there was an era where every tank had different ways to approach content. (Though I remember paladin being awful in dungeons.)

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PLD was the only tank I played back then, and I played a lot more casually so I'm also looking back with rose-tinted goggles, but it wasn't that bad. I will say it was a bit weird opening every single pull with 2-3 Flashes to maintain aggro on a group lol. Maybe if I'd reached end-game at that time I'd have a stronger opinion. But because the level cap was 60/70 there were other tools to play with as well - the current situation of all abilities being distributed over (now) 100 levels also wasn't as much of an issue.

That slow sliding CAN'T be a gap closer.
I really want the rollback of Plunge and Rough Divide.
If they want to reduce the burden of rotation which needs putting gap closers, just remove the damage of them, not the replacement.
I'm not satisfied with this change.

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Originally Posted by Nicola_Kunu

Way back in the day Paladins used to have an ability called "Flash" that did 0 damage but was able to generate enmity. So the system does in fact allow for damage-less enmity generation.
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Flash

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Oh shi...I forgot about Flash. I remember basically being forced to use that as my only means of tanking because using Fast into Riot into Rage just didn't do enough threat generation even on a single target.

Well then. That does raise the question on why they wouldn't use what ever Flash did to 'fudge' the threat on all gap-closers for tanks.

While I am glad the damage portion of the gap closer is gone, the one for GNB both looks and feels awful.

Firstly, why on earth is the animation not the GNB using the explosive force of the Gunblade to propel himself forward? It's thematic and fitting if unrealistic.

And secondly, and more importantly, the gap closer just feels so bad when you use it! Rough Divide insta charged at the enemy, no start up, right up against the mob. With the new one, there is a slight delay both at the beginning of the animation, and at the end, and you also don't end up right at the enemies side, you end up a foot away or so from the mob, this makes using the gap closer at close range not feel worth it because you feel like you're not closing the gap.

Would it really not have been possible to just remove the damage from the old gap closers? When you got a chance to use them to actually close the gap, they felt responsive and snappy. The new one feels sluggish.

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Originally Posted by Nicola_Kunu

Way back in the day Paladins used to have an ability called "Flash" that did 0 damage but was able to generate enmity. So the system does in fact allow for damage-less enmity generation.
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Flash

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Then as a WAR you would cross-class it because you had a full MP bar but none of your abilities used MP and so you would burn that MP on Flash for the AoE enmity and blindness debuff.
Those were some crazy days.