I think Dark Knight and Gunbreaker losing APM is a shame

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

my point is that I hardly know someone that enjoy drk busy burst, without using "tools" to triple weav easily

and if you're a drk you should know what 5-3 means (if you dont play casually the job)

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The 2min burst during Superchain 1 is not an issue, neither as DRK nor as GNB. It occurs while you are circling the boss and simply move to position depending on Astral/Umbral Tilt. The follow-up 2min is right after Paradeigma 3 and before Limit Cut, an essentially free moment of damage. The only one that may be a bit spicier is the one just before / at Superchain 2A, but that isn't Superchain 1 as you mentioned.

DSR p7 2min bursts are slightly delayed somewhere and aligned with the end of the 2nd Gigaflare cast if I recall correctly. Not the "most" intense from my experience, except for I think during one of the early Akh Morns'?

And just because I am a DRK does not automatically mean I know what 5-3 means, can you actually explain it so more than you in this thread can understand it? If you gonna drop it as info relevant to your argument, explain what it means if people don't know (or better, just explain it beforehand and don't assume we know).

As for people who enjoy busy bursts and not, the easiest solution to not wanting to play jobs with busy bursts is to not play them. Got Paladin and Warrior over there in a corner.
I enjoy the busy bursts DRK and GNB had. I could do it all with double weaving, no triple weaving required as you mentioned. It was fun figuring out the weaving of defensives (especially long, 20s ones) to do my job right.

If I wanted to play a job that is less busy, I would not be playing DRK/GNB. I'd be playing WAR/PLD. So I'm getting a bit tired of job tourists keep coming in and demand DRK to become less busy until we have all tanks play at about the same speed - DRK was the speed + busy tank since inception, goddamnit.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Lowest APM of all the tanks in general in DT.
Being lower APM than the axe clown is just too much.

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Probably not, but it is going to be closer overall. But it really wasnt that big of a difference across a whole fight to begin with.
Its the burst windows that make DRK and GNB busier higher apm jobs and that isn't really changing much.

I do think its dumb that they want to homogenize to this level though, its pretty tonedeaf

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Originally Posted by Praesul

People complained incessantly about DRK and GNB openers being too busy, those players got exactly what they wanted. Personally I never had any issues with gapclosers dealing damage and was more than okay with all tanks keeping them that way but I knew they would be changed due to the massive amount of complaints. I am at least glad that WAR and PLD got to keep their offensive ones.

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They don't balance jobs for people who play them.

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Originally Posted by Kaixern

The only reason people would play this class would be for nostalgia, gpose or if the devs mess up the potency and make it the tank with the most dps at the beginning of expansion

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DRK was doing the most damage of any tank in raid settings for all of Endwalker not just the beginning of the expansion.
Yes even into Anabaseios, a lot of people seem to beleive otherwise because of their inability to use the proper tabs on a certain highscore fansite, lets just say the one that starts with an "r" is basically irrelevant to tanks.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

my point is that I hardly know someone that enjoy drk busy burst, without using "tools" to triple weav easily

and if you're a drk you should know what 5-3 means (if you dont play casually the job)

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Its me I enjoy it.

I don't agree with changing jobs for people who don't like them, and in general theres a lot of people who seem wrapped up in the aesthetics of this job that can't admit that its just not for them.

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Originally Posted by Icecylee

GNB losing 2 damage ogcds during brust windows is good, actually. Not having weave space for defensives during 2m windows, which also made it hard to move due to the gapcloser effect fucking sucked hard in criterion. It's still hitting plenty of ogcds outside of it thanks to continuation anyway so it's not like the overall feel of the class is changing.

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Oh no, minor gameplay friction.
Remove it!

You will be play less busy job than war eventually. Now that war start to have more ogcd to weave during burst.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Probably not, but it is going to be closer overall. But it really wasnt that big of a difference across a whole fight to begin with.
Its the burst windows that make DRK and GNB busier higher apm jobs and that isn't really changing much.

I do think its dumb that they want to homogenize to this level though, its pretty tonedeaf


They don't balance jobs for people who play them.



DRK was doing the most damage of any tank in raid settings for all of Endwalker not just the beginning of the expansion.
Yes even into Anabaseios, a lot of people seem to beleive otherwise because of their inability to use the proper tabs on a certain highscore fansite, lets just say the one that starts with an "r" is basically irrelevant to tanks.



Its me I enjoy it.

I don't agree with changing jobs for people who don't like them, and in general theres a lot of people who seem wrapped up in the aesthetics of this job that can't admit that its just not for them.

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Well I dont like it, there is little occurence with «*pots + burst + personnal cd + group cd + aggro swap or mechanics (superchain 1 for example)*» but there is some, and when it occurs it’s just not fun and I know a lot of drk’s dont like it

I think it’s definitely better to have more busy rotation in between burst and a les busy burst than the other way around

I like drk/gnb way more than war/pld, and I like them to be busy, but having a bit less busy burst is totally fine to me

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Oh no, minor gameplay friction.
Remove it!

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There's good friction and bad friction in gameplay. Minor friction that does *not* effect my decision making (because it's not enough to actually effect what I'm doing or the buttons I'm pressing) and only exist to slightly annoy me for 2 seconds every over minute is, in my opinion, *not* an example of good friction. GNB is perfectly capable of being a high ogcd usage tank without damage gap closers. They have an entire button dedicated towards it which is used constantly.

Plunge was just fun to use. With or without min-maxing apm.

The first tank gap-closer in ffxiv as well... And now it's gone. Replaced with a bore that's more likely to make mobs run to your allies than what was previously which was us lunging at an enemy ramming them with the sword.

Least could have just removed damage on plunge in melee.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Plunge was just fun to use. With or without min-maxing apm.

The first tank gap-closer in ffxiv as well... And now it's gone. Replaced with a bore that's more likely to make mobs run to your allies than what was previously which was us lunging at an enemy ramming them with the sword.

Least could have jusy removed damage on plunge in melee.

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They'd be better off just removing shadowstride and giving Drk a new damage button.
I'd rather have no gapcloser than one that does no damage, because it becomes extremely situational.

So here my additional take on Shadowstride. I already said it's a miserable replacement for Plunge because Plunge broke 1min and non-burst monotony.

But Shadowstride, much like PLD's Intervene, has a small delay before the movement goes into effect and also feels like it doesn't have the smooth weaving Plunge had (Plunge started moving you on button press. The sound effects also feel so empty, I barely register that I press the button because it's so silent.

Can we please have Plunge back and put it on the Blood Gauge with a potency making it damage neutral on average to Bloodspiller? Warrior's Onslaught and Samurai's Gyoten had that and it was great. Movement on demand, does damage, isn't burst mandatory.

Sorry but Shadowstride sucks.

Trajectory feels even worse than Shadowstride does