can we have duty action "potion" and "phoenix down" on dungeons?

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Originally Posted by Tint

So essentially giving tanks the ability to raise. This would be completely broken. No thanks.

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IMO the only ones who should get to use Phoenix Downs in battle are Physical Ranged. Makes sense for the "support tax" to come with better support.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

IMO the only ones who should get to use Phoenix Downs in battle are Physical Ranged. Makes sense for the "support tax" to come with better support.

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Yeah nah. We don't need a Phoenix Down for anyone in the party since the Healer's supposed to be the backbone on that front. If they die, you either

A) DPS it down and use your tools to survive as long as possible.
or
B) Reset and wipe.

I can see why it may be useful, but I don't think we need to deteriorate Healers any further than how they're already being treated.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Yeah nah. We don't need a Phoenix Down for anyone in the party since the Healer's supposed to be the backbone on that front. If they die, you either

A) DPS it down and use your tools to survive as long as possible.
or
B) Reset and wipe.

I can see why it may be useful, but I don't think we need to deteriorate Healers any further than how they're already being treated.

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Then let's remove Resurrection and Verraise while we're at it. After all, it's the healers own fault if they die, right? Because they were trash, they didn't know what they were doing, they're clearly not good enough for this...ehh WHM main? I'm sure you'll be fine with more pressure on you and getting blamed for your own death.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Then let's remove Resurrection and Verraise while we're at it. After all, it's the healers own fault if they die, right?

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To be frank, removing the Raise Utility from SMN/RDM wouldn't change much aside from how raiders progress in a tier; in casual content though, it'd put more emphasis on the healer not dying so the party doesn't die. The only spikes in difficulty are The Vault, Doma Castle, Holminster Switch, and for Endwalker Ktisis Hyperboreia.

As someone said earlier:

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Originally Posted by Tint

the healer role needs more reasons to exist, not less.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

To be frank, removing the Raise Utility from SMN/RDM wouldn't change much aside from how raiders progress in a tier; in casual content though, it'd put more emphasis on the healer not dying so the party doesn't die. The only spikes in difficulty are The Vault, Doma Castle, Holminster Switch, and for Endwalker Ktisis Hyperboreia.

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If a healer dying once just results in a group wipe due to no other raises, it will lead to a lot of bad blood between healers and the rest of the party, resulting in the healer population taking a nosedive due to not wanting to handle the pressure. If a tank dies, you can often pick him up and everything can get back to normal somewhat. If a DPS dies, same thing. If a healer dies, group wipe. That is not a good formula for keeping healers playing healers, and you'd see queues even worse than they are now. Then you'd see so many threads going "Why does nobody want to play healer?" again.

If you really want to make healer role more essential, the easiest method would be to nerf the healing on tanks (specifically PLD and WAR), and start making more attacks where the damage dealt is a flat damage percentage that cannot be mitigated by any source. This forces actual flat healing requirements, and makes the healers mandatory because there's going to be a hell of a lot more danger for everybody else. Imagine boss raidwides that do 80% of your max HP and can't be mitigated at all, or some tankbusters that always do 90% of your max HP and can't be mitigated. Personally I'd prefer a return of the old days where bosses had less named tankbusters and just hit really hard with autos (think the P8S P2 tank soak autos), forcing an actual mitigation rotation on tanks.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

If a healer dying once just results in a group wipe due to no other raises, it will lead to a lot of bad blood between healers and the rest of the party, resulting in the healer population taking a nosedive due to not wanting to handle the pressure. If a tank dies, you can often pick him up and everything can get back to normal somewhat. If a DPS dies, same thing. If a healer dies, group wipe. That is not a good formula for keeping healers playing healers, and you'd see queues even worse than they are now. Then you'd see so many threads going "Why does nobody want to play healer?" again.

If you really want to make healer role more essential, the easiest method would be to nerf the healing on tanks (specifically PLD and WAR), and start making more attacks where the damage dealt is a flat damage percentage that cannot be mitigated by any source. This forces actual flat healing requirements, and makes the healers mandatory because there's going to be a hell of a lot more danger for everybody else. Imagine boss raidwides that do 80% of your max HP and can't be mitigated at all, or some tankbusters that always do 90% of your max HP and can't be mitigated. Personally I'd prefer a return of the old days where bosses had less named tankbusters and just hit really hard with autos, forcing an actual mitigation rotation on tanks.

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They returned to that with EX6. And it was good. However, I wouldn't want raid-wides to be as exacerbated as in your example. If you think it's going to lead to bad blood, I think you're playing the wrong game because people know that you just simply need to try again. If you want to talk about pressure though, how about those 'new' tanks that get Tankxiety? There's always that fear of expectation. Healers are no different. People will get over it and try again in the same dungeon if they wipe and help each other if they can.

Here's a question I'd like to ask: What keeps Healers from playing Healers? Because it obviously isn't because of people given the community that's running here OUTSIDE of the Forums.

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Originally Posted by Tint

So essentially giving tanks the ability to raise. This would be completely broken. No thanks.

Not to mention that the healer role needs more reasons to exist, not less.

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PLD used to have raise.
It was ...fine tbh. Like it wasn't broken at all. If you think so, RDM would like to show you a thing or two.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

PLD used to have raise.
It was ...fine tbh. Like it wasn't broken at all. If you think so, RDM would like to show you a thing or two.

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Because PLD could not use it in battle. Battle raise on a role which basically cannot die in casual content will make the game even more braindead. You can recover nearly everything then.

Why havent people realized that the thread itself is just a huge meme, because of how useless and gutted healers are?

Well if we are tossing out healers we may as well toss out tanks. Everyone is responsible for themselves. If you go down...it's squarely on you.

Now EVERYONE is DPS role.