Wait so you think the reason why he didn't kill our friends is because the matter was too personal? No, it's the opposite, exactly because it's personal would he do whatever he can to make us hate him, how much is the man going through to get his fight, obviously he would want us to see that he's being serious, not just playing around. And that would reinforce his being serious about going for Zodiark! Like why would we stop for a funeral when the world is at stake?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
Also didn't Fandaniel literally need more time to set up the tower?
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05-08-2023, 06:11 AMEisi
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05-08-2023, 06:24 AMTheMightyMolluskNo. I said that all of the other people he killed weren't personal enough. Stealing the WoL's body to threaten our allies was making it more personal. Killing the Scions wasn't necessary to get the point across, and Zenos has a proven history of not bothering to kill people he doesn't think are worth his time. Remember back in Stormblood, when he lost interest in Y'shtola, Lyse, Yugiri, and (the first time around) the WoL when they proved no threat to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisi
From his point of view, he's literally kick-starting the end of the world and put every civilization we've ever visited at immense risk, and it still hasn't gotten him what he wants. If those untold thousands of deaths haven't done the trick, why would four or five more? Again, the whole scenario is an effort in provocation.Quote:
No, it's the opposite, exactly because it's personal would he do whatever he can to make us hate him, how much is the man going through to get his fight, obviously he would want us to see that he's being serious, not just playing around. And that would reinforce his being serious about going for Zodiark!
No. Fandaniel had (or thought he had) enough aether in the Tower already to break through Zodiark's prison. The only reason it fails is direct intervention from Hydaelyn.Quote:
Also didn't Fandaniel literally need more time to set up the tower?
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05-08-2023, 06:36 AMNekoMataMata
The actual quest and solo instance was amazing. The results not so much.
It's not even that no one died, it that there literally just weren't any consequences what so ever. Due to the lack of consequences you can remove it from the MSQ completely and nothing would change.
Not to mention Fandaniel showing up and giving a cliché villainous monologue, explaining his plans which we already knew(and even if we didn't already know, that's probably the worst way to tell the audience).
The solo instance and just the general throwback to Aulus Asina's tech are wonderful though. -
05-08-2023, 06:56 AMEisiYeah, that was bullshit in Stormblood, such a great example of plot armor. But he gained extreme interest in keeping us alive in that scene as his little pet project.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
And Zenos has a proven history of killing people just like that. And he had that from the moment he was introduced in SB. The reason why he killed nobody in Rhalgr's was already because Lyse and Y'shtola needed to survive not because it was in his character to not bother slaughtering prey.
Yeah killing a friend is the ultimate provocation. You're telling me someone who is willing to put the world at risk is somehow above killing when it perfectly plays into his motives?Quote:
From his point of view, he's literally kick-starting the end of the world and put every civilization we've ever visited at immense risk, and it still hasn't gotten him what he wants. If those untold thousands of deaths haven't done the trick, why would four or five more? Again, the whole scenario is an effort in provocation.
In that case just have her intervene anyway! It still works!Quote:
No. Fandaniel had (or thought he had) enough aether in the Tower already to break through Zodiark's prison. The only reason it fails is direct intervention from Hydaelyn.
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05-08-2023, 07:04 AMLunaxiaTo set it up so well and instill such a powerful sense of tension only to have it end in such a dull, deflated sort of way was so disappointing and just... nonsensical, really. Even having a single Scion sustain a moderate injury through the pretext of Zenos "testing the body out" would have made a lot more sense from a narrative perspective, while still managing to resolve that tension in a satisfying way and leave a significant impression on the characters/ story with the emotional turmoil and feeling of uncertainty/ insecurity it would create. You don't need to drown the scenario in abject misery to make it impactful.Quote:
Originally Posted by NekoMataMata
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05-08-2023, 07:07 AMTowaIsBestGirl
I'm constantly perplexed by the people who utilize Game of Thrones as some kinda gotcha moment. Are people unaware that it's neither the only nor the most prominent work of fiction known at least partially for character deaths and consequences? I swear it's like the modern World of Warcraft, the new boogeyman now that so many are for some reason assured of it's demise.
I also have to confess to not understanding the obsession with raising men of straw in regards to wishing for consequences for the main cast. Most of the prices we've paid have been negligible, and quite frankly it makes for rather dull storytelling I'd argue. I do not believe there is any convincing reason for the insinuation that people just want them all to die to continue persisting, to me it reeks of a flanderization to denounce people's opinions as wrong. -
05-08-2023, 07:08 AMTheMightyMolluskZenos doesn't care about killing one way or the other. He kills when it serves his purposes, not out of bloodlust. Otherwise, despite his earlier speeches about "the sport of kings", lives mean nothing to him. There's no "plot armor" involved here, that's just his character. He wouldn't bat an eye if any of the above mentioned characters had died, but if they lived, so what? He'd made his point. His initial interest in the WoL comes from seeing how we improved between the fight at Rhalgr's Reach and the ambush attempt in Doma; he's basically farming us for a better fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisi
And if you want to talk plot armor, we still don't have an explanation for how Zenos learned to body-surf to survive cutting his own throat back in SB. His dialogue indicates that even he doesn't know how he did it.
I already answered this in the very post you quoted.Quote:
Yeah killing a friend is the ultimate provocation. You're telling me someone who is willing to put the world at risk is somehow above killing when it perfectly plays into his motives?
Again: He's not above killing. He just doesn't care about it. Mass murder already failed to do what he wanted, so more would be a waste of effort.Quote:
From his point of view, he's literally kick-starting the end of the world and put every civilization we've ever visited at immense risk, and it still hasn't gotten him what he wants. If those untold thousands of deaths haven't done the trick, why would four or five more?
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05-08-2023, 07:10 AMKickwarsNow that I actually read it this is hilariousQuote:
Originally Posted by Lunaxia
"drawn aether from her own body to the point of permanently disfiguring her perfect looks"
Agree with the rest of the post though but gore isn't needed -
05-08-2023, 07:13 AMTowaIsBestGirlWell of course it didn't, the Warrior of Light has no attachment to random Garlean citizens. No reason to wish to avenge them. The same can hardly be said of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn. Even if the Warrior of Light was forced to restrain themselves due to the Final Days being more pressing, I find it very hard to believe the Warrior of Light just being okay with Zenos at the very least injuring one of them. Putting them at risk but not actually taking action? That's a lot less hateable.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
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05-08-2023, 07:35 AMLunaxiaIt was around then and G'raha's eyes falling out I started feeling a little worried.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickwars
By "Y'shtola's shambling zombie body" I realised this probably isn't really about the story...