Tolerating atrocious gameplay is still toxic

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Originally Posted by BRVV

"I AM RP-ING AS AN <<ICE-MAGE>>!!!!"

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitpostXIV..._but_alternate

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Originally Posted by Skiros

In every other MMO, people bash and criticize people who are playing less than optimal. That is not nice.

But this MMO has swung completely to the other extreme. People who point out someone was AFKing, doing literal Heavensward damage numbers (since they were only doing autos), in the most diplomatic manner possible, are bashed and criticized.

If you wanna be toxic at least be toxic to the people who are disrespecting your time.

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Ah, this topic again. It gets repeated a lot.

Do you by chance have a specific example of what you experienced in a normal dungeon, trial, or raid. Emphasis on the word normal, not Savage/Ex. I don't have the numbers, but I've read the majority of the playerbase does casual content.

Also, I can give you a specific example of the kind of "diplomatic" advice I've seen in normal dungeons. Just last week, I was running a level 90 roulette (can't remember which dungeon) as RDM, and saw the following exchange.

Healer: Jesus Christ use your rotations!

Several seconds of silence go by. Finally...

Other DPS: Are you talking to the tank?
Healer: Yes.
Other DPS: Don't talk to my partner that way.

Healer responds with a bunch of weird ASCII shapes in party chat. I was going to screenshot it and post it on here and on Reddit but didn't care enough to do that. But I got three comms in that run because I just stayed quiet through the whole run.

So, for every "atrocious gameplay" thread this is just a friendly reminder that there are probably several more examples of toxic advice. Which I've noticed more as the population has grown over the last couple years.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

"I AM RP-ING AS AN <<ICE-MAGE>>!!!!"

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This kind of reminds me of a D&D campaign where I made a caster character with 0 spells intended for combat because they didn't like using magic to destroy things...

Only to have the fallout of the spells it did have result in far more destruction than the DM could have imagined... Yes I was banned from ever making a character like that again...

Constructive criticism is not toxic.

Being a snowflake IS toxic.

Some people just want you to improve, your refusal to WANT to improve is a hinderance to others.

Don't play with other people unless you are going to put in the effort to actually TRY.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Ah, this topic again. It gets repeated a lot.

Do you by chance have a specific example of what you experienced in a normal dungeon, trial, or raid. Emphasis on the word normal, not Savage/Ex. I don't have the numbers, but I've read the majority of the playerbase does casual content.

Also, I can give you a specific example of the kind of "diplomatic" advice I've seen in normal dungeons. Just last week, I was running a level 90 roulette (can't remember which dungeon) as RDM, and saw the following exchange.

Healer: Jesus Christ use your rotations!

Several seconds of silence go by. Finally...

Other DPS: Are you talking to the tank?
Healer: Yes.
Other DPS: Don't talk to my partner that way.

Healer responds with a bunch of weird ASCII shapes in party chat. I was going to screenshot it and post it on here and on Reddit but didn't care enough to do that. But I got three comms in that run because I just stayed quiet through the whole run.

So, for every "atrocious gameplay" thread this is just a friendly reminder that there are probably several more examples of toxic advice. Which I've noticed more as the population has grown over the last couple years.

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Is the healer wrong for asking people to actually play the game properly? No.

They chose to queue into a dungeon with other people, the least they can do is put in the bare minimum effort required to learn to play the damn game.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Constructive criticism is not toxic.

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The problem is "constructive criticism" can be misconstrued as "compelling playstyles" which is decidedly against the ToS. A lot of players would rather just not speak up out of self preservation than risk a ban over it.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Is the healer wrong for asking people to actually play the game properly? No.

They chose to queue into a dungeon with other people, the least they can do is put in the bare minimum effort required to learn to play the damn game.

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Whether the healer was right or not is irrelevant. This is EXACTLY the kind of attitude I'm talking about. People that talk rude or in a condescending manner are shocked when someone responds in kind, or straight up chooses to ignore them. They will run to the forums and create threads like this. The anonymity of the keyboard gives people license to talk to others the way they would never do in real life, and I know they wouldn't because if they did they'd likely get knocked the eff out.

Here's an example of constructive criticism: "You should trust more in your HoTs." This was actually directed at me a while ago when I was learning AST. And I appreciated that because I was overhealing too much.

Compare those to "Jesus Christ use your rotations!" And that's verbatim. I remember it very clearly. I have no doubt that this is the way a lot of you communicate to people in game because this is how gamers talk in all the other games I play.

It's not called snowflakes to be put off by something like that. It's called you having some real shitty people skills.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Whether the healer was right or not is irrelevant. This is EXACTLY the kind of attitude I'm talking about. People that talk rude or in a condescending manner are shocked when someone responds in kind, or straight up chooses to ignore them. They will run to the forums and create threads like this. The anonymity of the keyboard gives people license to talk to others the way they would never do in real life, and I know they wouldn't because if they did they'd likely get knocked the eff out.

Here's an example of constructive criticism: "You should trust more in your HoTs." This was actually directed at me a while ago when I was learning AST. And I appreciated that because I was overhealing too much.

Compare those to "Jesus Christ use your rotations!" And that's verbatim. I remember it very clearly. I have no doubt that this is the way a lot of you communicate to people in game because this is how gamers talk in all the other games I play.

It's not called snowflakes to be put off by something like that. It's called you having some real shitty people skills.

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Its called people not willing to take personal responsibility to learn to play the game before queueing into a multiplayer environment.

I will not carry somebody who does not put the effort into learning to play. Plain and simple. If they want to waste their own time, they can do so. But do not waste mine by playing like you have both hands tied behind your back and blindfolded.
We had a Dancer join our E12S mount farm and die to literally every mechanic in P1, while opening the fight with Improv instead of Standard Step.
Know what we did? Told them to go watch a video and come back when they know what to do and how to play their job at the level required for the content.
They didn't get salty, they just said 'I'm sorry, ill go take a look' and came back an hour later and cleared with us without a problem.
^ This person took personal responsibility and feedback without being a snowflake about it, and got better at the game.

You have the entire Internet worth of guides and information to help you get better, if people don't want to do that, then they should stick to single player content.

It takes 5 minutes to read a guide, learn an opener and be an above average player, People just do not do it because they don't care about wasting other's time.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Its called people not willing to take personal responsibility to learn to play the game before queueing into a multiplayer environment.

I will not carry somebody who does not put the effort into learning to play. Plain and simple. If they want to waste their own time, they can do so. But do not waste mine by playing like you have both hands tied behind your back and blindfolded.

Healer won't dps? Kick em.
DPS wont use AOE on trash? Kick em.

It takes 5 minutes to read a guide, learn an opener and be an above average player, People just do not do it because they don't care about wasting other's time.

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Right. You can communicate all that in a respectful manner. If not, well then, guess you can also be kicked and form your own party? It works both ways. That's why it's called a multiplayer game.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

What about PHP? This forum might be coded in it... did you want to say "pvp"?

On topic: the amount of people who just want to get carried through content seems to rise. This sucks

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PHP forums are prone to spam, necroposting and all the crap you see here. There's a reason many games just do Discord instead nowadays. We can't even change our name or delete our own old threads.