Request: Additional Paladin Changes.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

You said "read the tooltips" but you're trying to compare heart of stone to abilities like Oblation and nascent flash? when it would be comparable to shelltron or Raw Intuition because they're abilites that upgrade.

They function as the same, you use Intervention on party member, you use Holy sheltron on yourself, Gunbreaker uses Heart of corundum on self or party members, If you reworked Holy shelltron to target other players and self and also not have a long CD (3 seconds or so) It would function literally the same as it does now on Paladin.

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Well now you're talking about removing intervention if I could just use Holy Sheltron on other party members. Just roll with Holy Sheltron, why even bother with intervention. Which would bascially be broken as hell if I could use it on the MT. Or better yet....just roll x2 PLD and just alternate Holy Sheltron on the MT....tank nigh invincible. 30% reduced damage + a clemency level HoT constantly rolling.

Why don't we just put all mitigation on a SINGLE button for tanks to mash?
Rampart
Bulwark
Sentinel
Passage of Arms
Divine Viel
Intervention
Reprisal
Hallowed Ground
Cover
....just make it all one button so it's simple....just hit Holy-MOLY-GREAT-GOOGLY-MOOGLY-sheltron.

That should make playing on controller super easy.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Nascent Flash CAN target other players. The WAR DOES also get the heal effect that the person targeted with nascent gets. You can't give the warrior nascent glint...only a party member when you use nascent flash. The party member with glint get's 10% reduced damage, and stem the tide which also reduces damage by another 10% for 4s.

The warrior get's no mitigation benefits...only heals from stem the tide. Purely designed to supplement heals/mit for MT or squishy. I usually macro this to our resident SMN, BLM, or RDM.

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Its not impossible to rework Bloodwhetting into a targetable ability, If used on self you get the Nascent Flash effect as a healing effect, but targeting someone else will give still give you the nascent flash, but give the target nascent "glint" and the normal mitigation and barrier stuff you get from bloodwhetting.

I don't even care too much about Nascent flash besides that, warrior isn't struggling for button space, PLD is currently the one struggling with that.

With PLD it's much easier Holy shelltron can easily be a targetable ability, theirs no real difference in intervention then it being slightly worse.

Edit: (because of reply)
Changing Intervention/holy shelltron is nothing Like removing all mitigations into one button, I'm not arguing this anymore as it seems like you're not even looking at the argument, it wouldn't be "broken" If Holy shelltron is able to target other players, Intervention already does that. It wouldn't be OP if you could use it on the MT, Intervention already mitigates almost 30% damage.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Its not impossible to rework Bloodwhetting into a targetable ability, If used on self you get the Nascent Flash effect as a healing effect, but targeting someone else will give still give you the nascent flash, but give the target nascent "glint" and the normal mitigation and barrier stuff you get from bloodwhetting.

I don't even care too much about Nascent flash besides that, warrior isn't struggling for button space, PLD is currently the one struggling with that.

With PLD it's much easier Holy shelltron can easily be a targetable ability, theirs no real difference in intervention then it being slightly worse.

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I honestly don't know where people are getting this idea that they can't fit everything on their hot bar as PLD? This whole thread was based on the idea that PLD has a bloated tool kit. It might be bloated by maybe....ehhh...2 skills...tops.

I have literally everything on my hot bar as a PS5 player...even provoke...shirk...potion. Do controller players even know hot to use the expanded cross hotbar?

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Its not impossible to rework Bloodwhetting into a targetable ability, If used on self you get the Nascent Flash effect as a healing effect, but targeting someone else will give still give you the nascent flash, but give the target nascent "glint" and the normal mitigation and barrier stuff you get from bloodwhetting.

I don't even care too much about Nascent flash besides that, warrior isn't struggling for button space, PLD is currently the one struggling with that.

With PLD it's much easier Holy shelltron can easily be a targetable ability, theirs no real difference in intervention then it being slightly worse.

Edit: (because of reply)
Changing Intervention/holy shelltron is nothing Like removing all mitigations into one button, I'm not arguing this anymore as it seems like you're not even looking at the argument, it wouldn't be "broken" If Holy shelltron is able to target other players, Intervention already does that. It wouldn't be OP if you could use it on the MT, Intervention already mitigates almost 30% damage.

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It's going in this direction because you don't understand that intervention is NOT Holy Sheltron level of mitigation. It's a flat 20% and a HoT. To get to 30% the Paladin has to use rampart or sentinel just to get it to Holy Sheltron level of mitigation. Maybe i'm going out on a limb here and saying no PLD would use a personal mitigation....let alone sentinel to give someone else a +10% mitigation for an intervention use. I never have, very rarely does this happen. Shared tank busters....maybe stacks? 20% is still damn good mitigation.... I fail to see how I need to hand another 10% to another tank of all people for a "Just in case".

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

It's going in this direction because you don't understand that intervention is NOT Holy Sheltron level of mitigation. It's a flat 20% and a HoT. To get to 30% the Paladin has to use rampart or sentinel just to get it to Holy Sheltron level of mitigation. Maybe i'm going out on a limb here and saying no PLD would use a personal mitigation....let alone sentinel to give someone else a +10% mitigation for an intervention use. I never have, very rarely does this happen. Shared tank busters....maybe stacks? 20% is still damn good mitigation.... I fail to see how I need to hand another 10% to another tank of all people for a "Just in case".

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10% extra really wouldn't make PLD go into this double PLD meta, You seem to forget Dark knight gets a 25% Barrier every 15 seconds yet double dark knight doesn't seem to be meta, two dark knights could likely Mitigate way more then two Paladins, other tanks Like gunbreaker can give away 30% mitigation, DRK can give away a barrier and Oblation, the only benefit to PLD is you can store two, You might have a point If Intervention was already not designed to give away 30%

In double tank busters you should be using stuff like rampart or sentinel anyway, it gives you 20-30%+ mit, 30% from holy shelltron and buffs your intervention, You should generally buff your intervention button on situations with double tank busters, just because you don't see people do it, people should do it because it saves healers resources.

The only real benefit Intervention/holy sheltron have over any other personal mitigation is that you can store two. Which if you think it's OP that plds can use Mitigation on both tanks for 30% on both PLD can already do that for every double tank buster, Oath gauge is basically a CD system where PLD can store two uses of Intervention/holy sheltron, both abilities share the same Oath Cooldown. Cover also but cover is a meme ability.

If you were to combine Holy Sheltron and Intervention and give it a 2-3 second cooldown, you make the window that both targets will get the benefit from Knight's Resolve (15%/10% damage reduction, lasts 4 seconds) incredibly small and chances are, one target will not get the extra benefit and lose out.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

If you were to combine Holy Sheltron and Intervention and give it a 2-3 second cooldown, you make the window that both targets will get the benefit from Knight's Resolve (15%/10% damage reduction, lasts 4 seconds) incredibly small and chances are, one target will not get the extra benefit and lose out.

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You Could make it so while someone's under the effect of Knights resolve the ability cannot be reapplied, This would prevent situations where spamming it would be a issue.

or just extend Knights resolve to 5-6 seconds, which yeah would be a buff but it's not like PLD couldn't use some small buffs anyway.

You guys are making things much mroe complicated than it should be, my conern is only playability , how it should work technicaly is not my problem, Holy Sheltron doesn't need a cooldown becuase it has recource cost.

The idea to combine Shield Bash and Gorging blade sounds good to me, too.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Sheltron & Holy Sheltron & Intervention.
Request:
Combine Sheltron and Intervention into one hotkey.
Using Sheltron gives you the buff, using sheltron on a party member gives them intervention.
(same as Gunbreakers Heart of Stone)

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God, yes. This. Can you also extend this to WAR's Bloodwhetting and Nascent Glint? That'd be amazing.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Well now you're talking about removing intervention if I could just use Holy Sheltron on other party members. Just roll with Holy Sheltron, why even bother with intervention. Which would bascially be broken as hell if I could use it on the MT. Or better yet....just roll x2 PLD and just alternate Holy Sheltron on the MT....tank nigh invincible. 30% reduced damage + a clemency level HoT constantly rolling.

Why don't we just put all mitigation on a SINGLE button for tanks to mash?
Rampart
Bulwark
Sentinel
Passage of Arms
Divine Viel
Intervention
Reprisal
Hallowed Ground
Cover
....just make it all one button so it's simple....just hit Holy-MOLY-GREAT-GOOGLY-MOOGLY-sheltron.

That should make playing on controller super easy.

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you can already do that by writing a macro.. but I wouldn't put Passage of Arms, Divine Veil, Hallowed Ground and Cover in there since those Skills have different effects/uses/situations^^