Do folks actually believe spamming macros is useful in Frontlines?

As much as I usually agree with op in secret this here is a bad take. Callouts are vital, despite how annoying spamming is.

Not everyone opens their map or reads chat. Therefore, callouts are needed, so that those that do read both can help to lead other folks to where they need to be. It's just easier following the crowd than reading for some reason lol. If everyone is waiting for someone to lead them things can get messy very quickly.

Some people lead by solely getting kills. Some players will naturally follow those that are fed. A macro is required regardless whether it be for setting up burst or just simply telling folks to back away from the opponent's base. I can't say that I don't rely on callouts, because I still mainly operate over the countdown macro. It's just easier acquiring kills that way.

Also, I'm not entirely sure exactly where you're getting the idea that a premade of 4 is not enough for a crowd to follow.

People complain when no one does callouts, then people complain about the macros. You just can't win (in both senses).

As much as I wished a commander wasn't needed and everyone just knows what to do, the observed behavior and the amount of misinformation and lack of strategy I've seen (on NA servers) shows that people need a lot of guidance. Even with something like "pinch alliance," a lot of people won't know what that means, and they become the tasty meat of the sandwich for the other two teams, like in that image from a few posts ago.

However, that's not to say all callouts are good. Like I mentioned before, some commands are too general and there's a lot of misinformation/misinterpretation. In one of the worst callouts I've seen in a while but happened twice yesterday with two different commanders, they said we should ignore the team pinching us because it'd mean we're not "going for" the node. Suffice to say, anyone who didn't reposition died (nearly everyone).

Also a pet peeve, but I hate map links. I'm constantly moving and pushing buttons and have my map set so I can see it all at once. I generally don't have the luxury of clicking the links, and if I did, it messes up the way I set up my map. I've gotten better at just knowing what coordinate corresponds to where, but cardinal directions are much easier to understand. I'm sure other people feel the same.

You might not need callouts and you might play with the map open, but there are a majority of people who aren't as smart as you.

I have won way more matches with a commander than without because most people are just there for the daily frontline EXP bonus and don't care if they win or lose and most people don't want to fight because its scary or whatever. I play on controller so I appreciate it more when people say GO EAST, GO NORTH, etc but that's just me. So if you have the map open as you say then the vague callouts shouldn't be so vague.

Most people who carry the Slaughterhouse title will have experience in frontline to step up and play commander, so it's not anything I think you should scoff at simply because they don't have the 5k title which takes time to get if you aren't in a premade just farming kills. I think getting kills is a lot harder now too since FL has evolved to what it is now where it's way easier to get Battle Fever status.

Also if you don't need the callouts, why not just turn off alliance chat if it's that annoying?

In general call outs with <se.x> are a good way to help people who are totally focused on killing rather than looking at the map, doesn't matter if you are an skilled pvper but alone against 10 people you are not going to do anything by yourself.

Of course there are a lot of people who give horrible bad advices that leads to bad teamfights. The worst thing you can do in any frontline mode its to immediately run to a node/banner as soon it spawns rather than wait a little and see how the other alliances are moving around the map.

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Originally Posted by Edelgarde

Mhm. This is a good example what happens when you don't have a commander because they actually get you into proper position. With a commander, it will be
'Gather together on way mark' They'll be almost right behind Maelstorm while Maelstorm has their attention on Adders still.
'Burst shot, get ready!'
'Focus Maelstorm'
'Countdown 3,2,1'
'Full assault!'

Half of Maelstorm would be dead since they cannot retreat, and then that's when they immediately retreat after stealing points and ramping up more battle high.

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I mean, no? The reason the above happens is because people don't understand what pinching/sandwiching/whatevering means. Or they don't care. If you understand how Frontlines works, and are pressing M every now and then to scan the map, then you do not need any of those calls, because you recognize that red is the team that needs to be focused, and they are in a position such that they can be pinched.

Like I said, it's like trying to take credit for the rain. If you want to claim credit every time things go right while you're pretending to be a Battlefield commander, then you also have to take credit every time things go wrong. I think people would find they are much less effective as Commander(tm) if they were honest.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

As much as I usually agree with op in secret this here is a bad take. Callouts are vital, despite how annoying spamming is.

Not everyone opens their map or reads chat. Therefore, callouts are needed, so that those that do read both can help to lead other folks to where they need to be. It's just easier following the crowd than reading for some reason lol. If everyone is waiting for someone to lead them things can get messy very quickly.

Some people lead by solely getting kills. Some players will naturally follow those that are fed. A macro is required regardless whether it be for setting up burst or just simply telling folks to back away from the opponent's base. I can't say that I don't rely on callouts, because I still mainly operate over the countdown macro. It's just easier acquiring kills that way.

Also, I'm not entirely sure exactly where you're getting the idea that a premade of 4 is not enough for a crowd to follow.

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If people don't read chat, then who are the callouts for? If people read chat, wouldn't it just be more effective to use macros to teach them the importance of the map and how to interpret the information on it? Teach a man to fish, and all that.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

I really appreciate how there's all this talk about Japanese players being so amazing at frontline because they follow macros, meanwhile the real problem on NA is that our frontliner 'Commanders' come in two flavors. Those would be Information shared for the support of intelligent play, and 'Look at me I'm important listen to me <se.11>!!!'. The post is really about the second person here. The ego monster is a big issue in our side of the community. There was a CC post a while back about the desire for txt chat, but the reasoning was "So I can command my teammates." and that is why we can't have nice things. Not only is it unhelpful to spam the exact same text macro 20 times as quick as you can but it causes large amounts of people to ignore or blacklist you which then divides the group even more. Imagine trying to talk over people IRL and punctuating this with an air horn. enough said.

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Very much this. Even if sometimes they're questionable, the effort that that person /those people are making is appreciated and I won't debate them, I will follow them, even though I always have the map open, since we should act as a team.
However- for someone who is repeatedly spamming alliance chat with macros and with <se.> sounds for callouts? It is going to get me distracted and will get ignored at some point. I'll just look at the map at that point.

Whenever I'm on an Alliance with no one doing call outs there is plenty of fun brawling happening around mid which is what I play PvP for. I dislike having call outs because they tend to pull lemmings away from the PvP and towards some random clickable in bumf*ck nowhere while you just get overwhelmed by numbers. Man I wish there was a simple TDM mode. PvObjective is so lame.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Whenever I'm on an Alliance with no one doing call outs there is plenty of fun brawling happening around mid which is what I play PvP for. I dislike having call outs because they tend to pull lemmings away from the PvP and towards some random clickable in bumf*ck nowhere while you just get overwhelmed by numbers. Man I wish there was a simple TDM mode. PvObjective is so lame.

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id love some TDM

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

If people read chat, wouldn't it just be more effective to use macros to teach them the importance of the map and how to interpret the information on it? Teach a man to fish, and all that.

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So while I agree people should learn pvp just like they learn pve instead of praying for or expecting a carry I decline to put the teaching on the shoulders of the player base in the actual match. I put that right where it belongs. Namely on the dev team who really didn't think it mattered to teach anything about pvp. Instead of hoping people learn or randomly get inspired to go find Brian or other top pvp players who made guides they should at least put a crash course of sorts in to highlight the basics. Imagine walking into EX and expecting people to teach as you go... wait ... mentor roulette. Damn you SE!