SCH lacks a single target mitigation ability

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Do you mean Expedient? Like making someone sprint to their doom? Or is there something about Protraction that kills people that I don't know about?

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I believe the problem is what happens when a "heal to/for 100% of your HP" debuff snapshots under Protraction, and then Protraction falls off.

Yeah it's just encounter specific, any fights with a white hole or charybdis/1 hp mechanic.

The same thing happens with WAR if they use Thrill of Battle during those kinds of mechanics.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Do you mean Expedient? Like making someone sprint to their doom? Or is there something about Protraction that kills people that I don't know about?

If you are talking about Expedient, the pros outweigh the cons. Just because something has the potential to backfire does not make it a bad tool, nor does it mean it should be removed. 1 bad Rescue on occasion should not take away from the otherwise useful and engaging 100 times it's otherwise beneficial, for example.

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Protraction's HP buff doesn't mix well with some damage attacks or server ticks. For example, on p8s door boss I can live the poison from snake1 or snake2 with no mitigation, full hp. But if I put protraction on myself and it falls off before the damage applies then the debuff will kill me despite still being full HP. Its a little wonky.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

Protraction's HP buff doesn't mix well with some damage attacks or server ticks. For example, on p8s door boss I can live the poison from snake1 or snake2 with no mitigation, full hp. But if I put protraction on myself and it falls off before the damage applies then the debuff will kill me despite still being full HP. Its a little wonky.

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That's not a job balance issue, so protraction itself is not the problem. In that case, I think the best way to retify that would be for those mechanics to calculate max HP of original HP (after accounting for % stat increases for joining a party) instead of max HP of buffs. Otherwise, if your food buff falls off midway, the snapshot issue should have a similar problem.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

That's not a job balance issue

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Not entirely, it can be a coding issue that is part of the balance of a job. Lets say you use living dead and your HP is exactly 10k in the normal case. If you now get 10% extra, it becomes 11k, and walking dead now triggers. If expedient ends, you have only 10k max. Lets say the 2nd healer uses benediction on you, effectively being that 100% heal. What happens?

If the game considers the value on start, you die.
If the game considers the value on end, you are safe

Since its not described when the value is decided, its guessing.

(and yes, this similar behaviour works acros many aspects. but this example is easier to follow due to its very slow progress in what happens)

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

Not entirely, it can be a coding issue that is part of the balance of a job. Lets say you use living dead and your HP is exactly 10k in the normal case. If you now get 10% extra, it becomes 11k, and walking dead now triggers. If expedient ends, you have only 10k max. Lets say the 2nd healer uses benediction on you, effectively being that 100% heal. What happens?

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From what I understand, Living dead only activates when you hit below 1 HP, not when you lose a certain amount of HP. Walking Dead will not trigger unless you drop below 1 HP, not when you reach 1 HP because a buff expired.
The reverse is also different - Walking dead only requires you to restore a certain amount of HP to get out of Walking dead, not reach a certain percentage of HP. Plus, the Cure Potency of Walking dead is pretty much good enough to prevent that from happening now, even if a healer benediction late, because the DRK can just attack and cover the difference if the Walking Dead debuff hasn't been removed.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

Walking dead only requires you to restore a certain amount of HP to get out of Walking dead, not reach a certain percentage of HP.

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You have to be healed an ammount equal to your max hp, hence the max health is a factor. The issue is when this max health value is taken (which is mostly a coding thing as in most cases its simply not relevant as your max hp doesnt realy change as often).
And thats why i also used benediction, since if that is the only ability that was used, it does not provide any overhealing, causing the risk.

In actual gameplay its unlikely that you heal someone to full health in a single ability without him facing a few extra attacks. But if the risk exists, its good to know how it works.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

If anything, I'd say Protraction doesn't last long enough. A max HP boost has the unique quality of effectively being a refreshable barrier, but it's hard to really take advantage of that in a 10 second window. If that means it needs an increased cooldown than that would be fine, I think. I also feel like it would be fitting to have it be affected by Deployment Tactics. I still think DT feels really wasted being a whole button exclusively for one purpose that doesn't actually get used by good SCH players in most content.

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PVP version is interesting.
With a proper rework, it could spread protraction, adlo, excog (with a reduce effect) and chain or biolysis for the damaging part.

Deploying Protraction sounds really interesting and could make for some great combinations with the SCH's and co heal's toolkit, like using the 10% to survive an aoe and the heal increase for a stronger Seraph shield for the next one.
Giving DT more purpose in general would be welcome. As taurus said, it's a button a good SCH rarely uses outside of phase transitions when you don't have a target anyway. I can also imagine it being interesting for Aetherpact, it would give the Fey Gauge a better purpose. Bonus points for an animation that looks like I have my entire party on a leash.
Protraction, Chain, Excog, Aetherpact and with decreased effect if necessary but it would add some real decision-making to DT instead of marrying it to Adlo and nothing else. 2min cooldown with a 2nd charge would be fair imo. I dislike skills that are married to one specific skills in practice, Zoe is guilty of that as well.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Deploying Protraction sounds really interesting and could make for some great combinations with the SCH's and co heal's toolkit, like using the 10% to survive an aoe and the heal increase for a stronger Seraph shield for the next one.
Giving DT more purpose in general would be welcome. As taurus said, it's a button a good SCH rarely uses outside of phase transitions when you don't have a target anyway. I can also imagine it being interesting for Aetherpact, it would give the Fey Gauge a better purpose. Bonus points for an animation that looks like I have my entire party on a leash.
Protraction, Chain, Excog, Aetherpact and with decreased effect if necessary but it would add some real decision-making to DT instead of marrying it to Adlo and nothing else. 2min cooldown with a 2nd charge would be fair imo. I dislike skills that are married to one specific skills in practice, Zoe is guilty of that as well.

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Personally, what I think could work really nicely would be to steal a little of new SMN's concepts of having a button that changes with your pet summons. Having Eos and Selene be different would be nice, but something that could add or take the place of that which the Scholar uses based on their pet could also help consolidate some of their bloat. SMN currently has Gemshine and Precious Brilliance. Perhaps SCH could have Feyshine and Lustrous Brilliance. On Eos, Feyshine is Protraction. On Selene, it's a revamped Eye for an Eye. Both can be spread by Deployment Tactics.