Tales from the Dawn

I wouldn't get too excited. JP makes no mention of souls (nor did it in the Ere Our Curtain Falls short story). Also, I consulted friends for both DE and FR, that passage seems to be referring to the second sacrifice "in order to sow new seeds of life":

"Halve of the population sacrificed themselves to summon Zodiark and to avert it, but for the planet to flourish/blossom again, another part of the followers of the mighty god offer themselves as lifeseed. No matter what happens, in the end the lost paradise will blossom again - that is what the Convent of the Fourteen preached."

Regardless, who or what was being sacrificed didn't seem to matter, but this subforum seems intent on being hung up on the third sacrifice forever.

Indeed, contextually it is the second sacrifice, and French is explicit on this point. It is referring to the second sacrifice as the method by which to ready the final stage.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

If only Lahabrea had been smart enough to justify it with a line like, "'Tis best we work towards the greatest good without [fore]knowledge which might cloud our judgment." Might have kept Emet-Selch off his back a bit, lol.

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Maybe if he planned a genocide at the time, she could've offered him some pointers. I guess that poster has to find some tiny morsel to irrationally cling to in justifying the cover up of knowledge that could prevent planetary genocide, so that'll be the hill she's going to unceremoniously commit seppuku upon.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

Regardless, who or what was being sacrificed didn't seem to matter, but this subforum seems intent on being hung up on the third sacrifice forever.

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Perhaps people wouldn't be so "hung up" on figuring out the truth of what happened if the writers had actually fleshed out this key event that the narrative revolves around, rather than making vague and contradictory statements around the edges?

If they're not giving us the full picture, we'll try to piece it together from whatever scraps they give us.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Perhaps people wouldn't be so "hung up" on figuring out the truth of what happened if the writers had actually fleshed out this key event that the narrative revolves around, rather than making vague and contradictory statements around the edges?

If they're not giving us the full picture, we'll try to piece it together from whatever scraps they give us.

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I agree that it can be put down to the writers refusing to flesh this aspect out, and people can't be blamed for therefore trying to tease it out - but I think Rulakir is frustrated because it's been established at this point that the third sacrifice was not, itself, remotely a significant factor in Venat's decision regarding the Sundering, but continues to be debated as though it was. So in context of understanding Venat's character and motives, as opposed to the event in and of itself (and possibly the motivations of her followers, since we now know they didn't understand her true motives either), it's a bit tiring.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Perhaps people wouldn't be so "hung up" on figuring out the truth of what happened if the writers had actually fleshed out this key event that the narrative revolves around, rather than making vague and contradictory statements around the edges?

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Oh, I wholly agree. I've said many times this rush to conclude the Ancients arc has deprived us of lore (and not just any lore but the foundation of the history of the game world) , particularly due to how they chose to characterize Venat. I sincerely doubt they want to address the details of the Final Days or Sundering any further because every time they release new information it makes her look worse, which I don't believe is the intent.

I'm not happy about having a vague picture of events either, but between them writing themselves into a corner and Yoshi-P's apparent disinterest in it it's sadly the best we're probably going to get.

Well, reading the story equivalent of people screaming 'mOmMy' in Twitch chat whenever Venat is shown in any way during a Live Letter was certainly something.

I don't want to make a long post so I will be brief: I did not enjoy reading this story. I have no idea what I'm supposed to get out of it besides descriptions of how lovely and beautiful Venat is. Why was this written? What was the purpose? Because if it was supposed to flesh her out more, it didn't really do that. All I know is I dislike the Watcher even more than I already did after the Omega quest.

Spoilers for 6.2's ending below.

Thank you Golbez for ridding us of the 13th's Watcher, after this short story the last thing I want is to be subjected to more of his gushing about Hydaelyn.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

That's another thing. The story tells us the reasoning of Venat's faction in abstract, but it still keeps the details of the scenario super vague. Why was it a sure thing they'd never move forward? It makes it come across as mass-murder based on a vibe. Why not elaborate a bit?

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They basically had the power of a god in their hands, allowing them to rewrite the rules of reality, bring back the dead, etc etc. Makes it so they don't need to worry about future problems, their god will solve all of it, so they get complacent and basically go "God will fix it" every time something comes up. There's no learning in such a world, nothing to strive for, and as we know the Amaurotine society was basically built on learning and striving to make the world a better place. Zodiark was ironically the thing that would destroy their very way of life just by existing.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

But while it is a very nice story, it's the absolute worst pick for an opener in my book. Given how much of Endwalker was about moving on from the past, freeing ourselves from its shackles and carving our own way into the future, we sure are spending an awful lot of stories stuck in that past.

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https://i.imgur.com/q7wztCv.jpg

Not gonna happen friend, unfortunately for some.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I wouldn't get too excited. JP makes no mention of souls (nor did it in the Ere Our Curtain Falls short story). Also, I consulted friends for both DE and FR, that passage seems to be referring to the second sacrifice "in order to sow new seeds of life":

"Halve of the population sacrificed themselves to summon Zodiark and to avert it, but for the planet to flourish/blossom again, another part of the followers of the mighty god offer themselves as lifeseed. No matter what happens, in the end the lost paradise will blossom again - that is what the Convent of the Fourteen preached."

Regardless, who or what was being sacrificed didn't seem to matter, but this subforum seems intent on being hung up on the third sacrifice forever.

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I know, right? It's almost as if it's one of their ONLY and indeed, one of their most flimsy defenses of the Sundering. Garsh darn it, if only Abyssos hadn't established Ancient Lahabrea as the antithesis of those who'd see him crucified for pre-crime. What a missed opportunity for slander.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

Oh, I wholly agree. I've said many times this rush to conclude the Ancients arc has deprived us of lore (and not just any lore but the foundation of the history of the game world) , particularly due to how they chose to characterize Venat. I sincerely doubt they want to address the details of the Final Days or Sundering any further because every time they release new information it makes her look worse, which I don't believe is the intent.

I'm not happy about having a vague picture of events either, but between them writing themselves into a corner and Yoshi-P's apparent disinterest in it it's sadly the best we're probably going to get.

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I concur with Rulakir, here. I feel like I'm in a position where I ought to caution to 'ware what you wish for since fleshing out the full details of the Sundering in all its great and terrible glory would firmly establish Venat as far less than the morally uprighteous figure so many here and elsewhere seem to worship her as. I firmly believe this is why Yoshida refuses to do so or allow it to be done, since it would tarnish further the already crumbling gleaming crystal pillar she stands on in the dark recesses of his mind.

In summary, might not be as wise of a stance to take since it would make so many here's arguments that much harder to take seriously.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

They basically had the power of a god in their hands, allowing them to rewrite the rules of reality, bring back the dead, etc etc. Makes it so they don't need to worry about future problems, their god will solve all of it, so they get complacent and basically go "God will fix it" every time something comes up. There's no learning in such a world, nothing to strive for, and as we know the Amaurotine society was basically built on learning and striving to make the world a better place. Zodiark was ironically the thing that would destroy their very way of life just by existing.

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Hardly. If Venat had been operating under full disclosure, Zodiark would not even have been a necessary tool. People not operating under duress having been blindsided by an Apocalypse they couldn't have possibly seen coming typically don't go and summon God. This is not such a difficult concept to comprehend.

Fun fact: During our time in Elpis, the Final Days had not yet arrived to Eitherys and nobody had yet been sacrificed. It's hardly so morally and temporally different from Vrtra and Azdaja's situation when you really think about it. Only the approach and outcome differ. One was given a chance to succeed, the other was decapitated before even leaving the womb. So to speak.

This would've been a perfect opportunity to delve deeper into the reasoning behind Venat and her followers, but the lack of such makes me think that's a topic they're probably not going to bother with at this point.

I'm still left with a lingering vibe that the former is the only one who actually knew about Meteion and the latter crowd were swayed into going against Zodiark simply for the reasons that were brought up in the story.