And pray tell me how expressive it was to use Kaiten instead when it was unrivaled Kenki spender? No seriously I'm curious how the skill that basically has written "use me in front of any big hit" is suddenly the peak complexity and expression of skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestiCer
Samurai is dead to me, thanks square (Kaiten 6.2)
Printable View
-
08-24-2022, 08:34 AMJaquan
-
08-24-2022, 08:40 AMTheodric_ThorneBecause you actually had to think about how much Kenki you were building and spending. Gyoten and Yaten are used for mobility, so that's 20 Kenki you have to hold in reserve for getting out of AoEs efficiently. Big spenders like Guren/Senei take a huge chunk out of the gauge, but not often. You needed to juggle all these spenders and make sure you always had enough Kenki for Kaiten before your big hits. Now that you don't, you no longer have to think about Kenki generation. Past level 62 you're nearly always full, and have to keep spamming Shinten (or sometimes Kyuten) to keep from overcapping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaquan
-
08-24-2022, 08:52 AMCelestiCerI'll bite, it's a free bump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaquan
Kaiten was a 50% weaponskill potency buff of 20 Kenki that you want to use on Higanbana, Midare Setsugekka, Ogi Namikiri and Tenka Goken for mowing down multiple mobs. Sounds easy to manage, but it is still something you should weave.
Apparently since Positionals according to you is already busy enough - Samurai's need to also juggle- Rotation properly
- Melee uptime
- Buff alignment, even more so in 6.2
- Not clipping your Weaving
- Slidecasting for greeding moments
- Not overcapping Meditation stacks
You'll have your rotation also change which changes when you use Kaiten due to- Intermissions
- Cutscene moments
- Transitions
- Fights that don't have a set scheduled rotation
Lets be clear though - This is all Easy. It's not difficult.
The point is? why have it be even easier? Cause if this isn't more nuanced since Positionals keeps your brain to busy as it is lol... if Kaiten was that meaningless let me show you if you already don't know what it has become due to Kaiten removal for the 100th time now so lets make sure you can't miss it here it comes, ready?
Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten
This is the alternative of the now. Let me ask you, is this more complex, nuanced and thoughtful then Kaiten? What do I know, it's not like I main this job amirite? -
08-27-2022, 11:13 AMninjasoldier014I've been too busy with having a life to come back to this post, but this sums up a lot of how I feel. Then there's this comment that I see everywhere, which is rather ignorant and rude. Don't you ever consider that we're being cynical because we love the game to bits?Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestiCer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryaz
You can understand my frustration when you take in all of the context from my perspective, GNB sound change in 5.01 that literally no one asked for, their stance on housing and not spending a dime on developing instanced housing/expanding apartments. My frustration with their insistence on FOMO game design... Anyway, apart from their lack of communication and bad business practices, their history of making a change that doesn't sit well with me seems to always to last literal years. So yeah I'm going to exaggerate in my post because quite frankly my life is rough enough, and I don't need this bull crap when I get off of work to enjoy what little free time I do have to play a game that keeps removing the things I enjoy.
The job isn't fun anymore. -
08-27-2022, 02:08 PMKahnom
Damn it, I missed Stormblood SAM.
-
08-27-2022, 07:24 PMFlashyThey're commenting on things they don't care about. I'm sure when their job gets changed for no reason, they'll be reading these posts with a different viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasoldier014
I laughed at the "All of 10 people" comment because I felt the same way with how emotionally invested I let myself get into SAM when I started around patch 5.4 as a ShB baby. Shit I almost didn't even want to resub after the liveletter lol. But yeah job sucks right now, I'm sure new people getting into SAM won't notice any issues, but I always will. They'll never revert it to 6.08 so I hope these changes let others enjoy the job more while they're pressing half their buttons in their patch dungeon and normal trial
SAM looks like it's in a good spot right now damage-wise with the crit changes, highest dps won't get me to play it though. I played it in 6.0 when it was underperforming because it was pretty fun despite being simplified in Endwalker, didn't think the job could get even more simple.. So now I play a terrible Black Mage that I want to get better at
Gameplay>Damage -
08-27-2022, 08:51 PMgeorge357sam
if you mad about this job pick another one till they fix this one and stop crying about it and move on.
-
08-27-2022, 10:07 PMCelestiCergeorge357Quote:
Originally Posted by george357
if you don't like reading SAM threads about SAM from SAM's, how about you pick another subsection and stop crying about other peoples feedback and move on. -
08-28-2022, 06:54 AMRyazI've been maining SAM since day one SB. I sure as hell do care about it. I was there when they removed Hagakure as our big sticker reset that also provided the most potency per sticker, which allowed us to have a very flexible rotation. I was there when they removed Seigan, which I always got a bit of a thrill out of nailing after Third Eye. I stuck with Samurai then, even though I found the more rigid rotation less fun. Why? Because I like the rest of the job overall. I like the aesthetics. I like the sticker system into the big Iaijutsu. That core is still there, even with Kaiten gone. Did I like Kaiten? Yes, it was a cool little wind up into the big hit. Do I think Samurai could stand a bit of a rework to put on par gameplay-wise with newer jobs like Reaper? Yes, especially some more reasons to use Kenki outside of Shinten. But losing Kaiten wasn't enough to make me hate everything else about the job that I love. It's annoying, but for me, it's not the end of the world. I survived the Hagakure change. I can survive this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashy
I can even understand people's frustrations with it. I just don't take kindly to people acting like the job is dead, that no one plays it and everyone hates it. It's fine to be frustrated, but this kind of hyperbole can drive away new players who may enjoy the class if given a chance and basically tells anyone who doesn't like it that they're stupid for doing so or that they're just slaves to the devs. It's a disingenous take. -
08-28-2022, 08:49 AMReese_Clairdale
I don't think it's disingenuous to make the observation that the job is in a downgraded state. The objective here is not to drive away new players, they generally don't have any incentive to visit the forums because they will be blissfully ignorant of the game's development history, so when they pick up any job they can decide for themselves if it's fun or not. The ultimate goal is to restore what we thought was fun about SAM because if we can enjoy it then there's no reason why a completely new player wouldn't as well.
When people say "[Job] is dead.", they're not saying it can't perform its function properly, they are saying the reasons that originally attracted them to the job were replaced or discarded, so the job was essentially removed from the game according to their personal tastes. Of course it's not actually dead until the entire job is deleted, that's not the point.
A job being ruined is always going to be a matter of perspective. Objectively you could say any DPS job is fine as long as it maintains its ability to reduce an enemy's HP to zero in an amount of time befitting a DPS. If SAM's entire kit was suddenly reduced to say, a single button with 500 potency that you mash for the entire duration of the fight, I think every current player would agree that SAM would be "dead", not because it doesn't function, but because at that point, almost nothing is left about what made people fall in love with the job.
However, if a new player started the game after SAM was deemed "dead" then decided to play SAM, they may decide it is "fine" because they get to wear the cool Japanese robe and hat while wielding a katana. To them, that's how it always was. They don't have the experience to understand why people thought it was better before. They also don't have enough experience with the game in general to dictate the way jobs should play. Catering to the type of player that can accept this as good job design harms the game as a whole, even if it boosts SE's bottom line in the short term. Designing a game around engagement metrics gathered by a machine only upsets veteran players in the long run if the metrics are saturated with people that don't even know what they are doing.
There's more that people enjoy about combat jobs than it simply functioning properly as a cog in a machine. The various abilities and associated VFX, SFX, character animations, effects on enemies, effects on players, and the rhythm at which you press buttons are all important for different reasons to different people. All of these aspects were disrupted in 6.1. Over 4 months later and there is still no demonstration as to why the changes would be necessary in the future. The decision that SAM is dead is completely valid as a personal opinion.