DSR observation: PLD Sheltron does not block while stunned

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Originally Posted by Amenara

I feel like the easier solution is allow you to block while stunned...

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It doesn't even need to be a change to block as a whole, only when that block is literally "guaranteed".

It shouldn't then be guaranteed except if CCed or if the attack is a critical hit. It should just be guaranteed.


If that means feigning a block (actually preventing blocks during the buff, but offering the %mitigation a block would normally provide), so be it.

I don't think you can block, dodge or parry while stunned in any MMO.

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Originally Posted by NightHour

I don't think you can block, dodge or parry while stunned in any MMO.

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I don't think I've ever seen a steel wall collapse just because its creator was briefly distracted sometime after its creation.

The question still just comes down to whether one skill should have two unique disadvantages without any relevant compensation elsewhere in its kit.

The base block chance is mere sustain over time, as unreliable and thereby unlikely a source of survival at a key moment as Soul eater, and irrelevant to any discussion of active mitigation, let alone the 15-to-25s on-demands.

Why not change the text from a "100% Guaranteed Block Rate" to "Block Most attacks with 100% chance to avoid Critical Hits"

That way the old Awareness Skill is baked in and it becomes a more useful Dungeon Cooldown with a unique effect. It wouldn't be shocking when you are stunned and unable to Block either.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

Why not change the text from a "100% Guaranteed Block Rate" to "Block Most attacks with 100% chance to avoid Critical Hits"

That way the old Awareness Skill is baked in and it becomes a more useful Dungeon Cooldown with a unique effect. It wouldn't be shocking when you are stunned and unable to Block either.

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While definitely an improvement it still wouldn't solve the issue of Shelltron being flat out worse than Drk's, WAR's and GnB's equivalents when you're stunned. Now this wouldn't be a big deal in a world where all tanks had their unique stengths and weaknesses. But with the current tank design, where they all more or less have the same defensives, Paladin is the only tank with this issue.

This is the main reason why jobs become progressively more homogenized over time.

PLD has an additional passive block proc effect on top of the standard parry that no other tank has access to as part of its aesthetic. People fixate on a singular case where block doesn't work. Block gets completely removed next expansion and replaced with %DR effects on Sheltron. Players next expansion are confused over the sudden homogenization. I'm all for the 'unique strengths and weaknesses' approach, but people have to buy into that mindset first.

That RNG block value is unreliable over-time sustain at best, though. Why should otherwise standard active sustain (by way of mitigation or added simple eHP and healing capacity) suffer for what is most alike, functionally, to Souleater's heal (appreciable only vaguely and over time).

"X must have a dysfunctional active mitigation tool because part of its passive/unreliable sustain is handled uniquely!" Not because Paladin has uniquely high passive/unreliable, but simply because it looks different. ...Why?

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Originally Posted by ZiziT

Our group runs WAR/PLD and we also ran into this problem. We resolved it by having me (the WAR) use Nascent Flash on the PLD during that set of tankbusters while I use Holmgang. I believe any tank composition can work around Sheltron by using The Blackest Night/Intervention/Heart of Corundum/Nascent Flash on each other, rather than on themselves.

I'd like to refrain from debating whether or not Sheltron and blocking should be adjusted; I just wanted to provide a possible solution in the meantime.

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My group came up with a similar solution, where we just moved around CDs so I had some more up for the tether. Thank you for the input though, and I'm glad you guys were able to find a work-around!

Forgive me to pull up the discussion again, I think it is still somewhat relevant.

In my opinion, three things could / should be done without straight up axing Block as a mechanic.

1.) Passage of Arms needs a rework.
I'm aware this will earn me the most ire, but hear me out. Passage of Arms is a cool skill and I think having an additional group mitigation (in intention at least) would work - if you could continue attacking while it is deployed.

That's right, I'm suggesting to make it work like [Temperance], but with a smaller radius (10-12y around the PLD).

• * Crystalline wings are deployed (and maybe a somewhat visible circle to signify the range) on the Paladin
• + is no longer cancelled from doing other actions
• + self-mitigation effect unified to be -15% (optional with change 2b)
• - reduce duration to 6-10s at most, keeping Dark Missionary / Heart of Light more relevant as the long-term mitigation

On paper this would not change how much personal mitigation PLD has, but it would make Passage of Arms a lot more attractive to use.

2a) Block passive/Guaranteed Block adjustments.
For similar reasons why Guaranteed Critical Hits / Direct Hits have gotten the bonus damage from having excess Critical Hit / Direct Hit stats or raid buffs (something they seemingly forgot for cap speed weaponskills / spells like Heatblast)...

I believe it would be nice if your passive wouldn't deactivate when using Passage of Arms and (Holy) Sheltron and instead would merge into essentially a "Superblock". Say you get a block proc by the system while you had a guaranteed Block deployed, you'd get a superblock which would be... 30%? 35%? Definitely a significant amount of mitigation to make up for not having the heal / shield passive the other three tanks bring with their combos (Storm's Path + Souleater heal, Brutal Shell Heal/Shield). I'm unsure about Parry so I'd just leave it there.

Also please let us block critical hits again. Doing Ultima / Bahamut on Paladin and timing an already 4-seconds duration Sheltron perfectly only to be greeted by two(!!) critical hits in a row is a real gut punch without the Awareness effect.

2b.) Alternative: Change Guaranteed Block to standard mitigation
Boring change but I guess it would "work". It would also help alleviate Paladin's inability to block DOT damage, but I can't speak on how important this truly is especially in conjunction with Change #1 regarding PLD's mitigation budget.

A simple solution is to have Sheltron (Lv. 35) written with:

"Block incoming attacks while reducing damage taken by 20%."

This way, it gets an added missing personal mitigation without bloat, and block functions as usual with a fallback when it doesn't. Would also fix cooldown timings from lack of personal mitigation at lower tiers.