Are necromancers necessarily evil?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Either way though, they've already done pretty terrible things to the point i feel becoming a necromancer or a thief would hardly make anyone bat an eye. In retrospect, what exactly is anyone going to do about it? Tell the WoL stop? lol

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What terrible things? I need specific examples to figure out where that's coming from.

Thieves wouldn't add anything to gameplay except, possibly, flavor. There are 90 levels that do not require anyone to use ultra-special 'thieving' skills. That isn't going to change.

Necromancers are problematic for several reasons, the primary one being that souls return to the Lifestream after death.

My favorite Necromancer in literature, the infamous Yiling Laozu, required massive amounts of Resentful Energy in order to guide the dead to do his bidding. That's just not available due to the Lifestream.

I also can't see how an "oooh, oooh, I can manipulate dead bodies with magic!" would be thrilling gameplay without the souls that come with them. Especially in the arenas where we tend to meet bosses. Imagine running through one of the current 24-man instances looking for dead bodies to manipulate ... yeah, not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Something something ethics, something something. Sorry, now shove that necromancer fantasy in the back with the Garlamand ending.

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Smells like double-standards to me. But at least we’re getting the “bad guys” gear now. :p

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

I just feel like SE has no ground to stand on anymore after reaper. Now it just makes them look extremely arbitrary at best, hypocrites at worst. I mean, if you really want to make necromancer look good, just write some bullshit like "the WoL can now conjure up noble, heroic spirits/bodies from the dead and have them fight the good fight".

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Or maybe they just changed their minds...?
I still think there are arguments to be made as to why Necromancer is different but I mean they're not under any obligation to add them either.

All this talk about Yoshi-P's or the devs in generals supposed hypocrisy and stupidity etc is just kinda irrelevant and unnecessary.
Not everyone will agree where the line is drawn and what is worse than the other, and especially in regards to Necromancers there just are hurdles that you run into both thematically and also in terms of irl cultures that you don't run into with other Jobs.
If people wanna disagree with the reasoning that's fine but they never promised that they were going to add them and then took it back nor are they under any sort of obligation to add them.
It may be as simple that they don't want to add them and are looking at other Jobs instead.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Same old Yoshida and his double standards.

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It's only double-standards if he agrees with your view on where the line is drawn.
It's not double-standards if he believes that Necromancers crosses the line but DRK and RPR don't.
And like I've mentioned there are cultural reasons that can influence this and be the deciding factor.
And even that aside there are just personal views and opinions too, this isn't some kind of a matter of fact.

I dunno why we can't talk about these things without becoming so insanely petty about it and taking weird personal jabs at the devs.
It's the same with the story too people act like their interpretations and views of events and characters are some objective fact that everyone else must or do adhere to and then go ballistic about it.
And apparently it can't just be a disagreement and simply a matter of opinion, no it must be some personal fault on the writers and of the people who didn't have the same issue.
It's just weird...

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Or maybe they just changed their minds...?
I still think there are arguments to be made as to why Necromancer is different but I mean they're not under any obligation to add them either.

All this talk about Yoshi-P's or the devs in generals supposed hypocrisy and stupidity etc is just kinda irrelevant and unnecessary.
Not everyone will agree where the line is drawn and what is worse than the other, and especially in regards to Necromancers there just are hurdles that you run into both thematically and also in terms of irl cultures that you don't run into with other Jobs.
If people wanna disagree with the reasoning that's fine but they never promised that they were going to add them and then took it back nor are they under any sort of obligation to add them.
It may be as simple that they don't want to add them and are looking at other Jobs instead.



It's only double-standards if he agrees with your view on where the line is drawn.
It's not double-standards if he believes that Necromancers crosses the line but DRK and RPR don't.
And like I've mentioned there are cultural reasons that can influence this and be the deciding factor.
And even that aside there are just personal views and opinions too, this isn't some kind of a matter of fact.

I dunno why we can't talk about these things without becoming so insanely petty about it and taking weird personal jabs at the devs.

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It's been turned into another Yoshi-P bashing thread by the usual group lol.


Necromancer raise the dead without regards to their souls which is seen as evil. Always has been.

Reapers communed with a singular voidsent, which has a soul (I mean, they're just people from the void)

I don't see how these are the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It's been turned into another Yoshi-P bashing thread by the usual group lol.


Necromancer raise the dead without regards to their souls which is seen as evil. Always has been.

Reapers communed with a singular voidsent, which has a soul (I mean, their just people from the void)

I don't see how these are the same thing.

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The voidsent consumes the souls of whatever your're fighting lmao.

I have always found the thief/rogue distinction to be funny. Not that it'd actually happen but I can just imagine Yoshi literally clutching pearls "n-no!! The warrior of light does NOT STEAL!

Anyways, regarding necromancer... Wouldn't mind it. Actually, come to think of it, doesn't the Chinese version of the game have certain "accommodations" when it comes to depictions of the dead, skeletons, that kind of thing?

Even if they came out tomorrow and said that "Necromancy is not evil", Necromancy is already established in FFXIV lore as being a bastardisation of White Magic.
And so we're not likely to ever get it as a job because it's too closely linked, or too similar, to an existing job. Which is the same reason we won't be seeing: Thief, Ranger, Gunner, Berserker or Time Mage.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

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they can be seen as morally questionable for using dark or forbidden magic/arts but they can be used for good. other games like diablo have necromancers as playable characters so they can be definitely be on the good side. other similar classes like the warlock from wow also use "evil" or dark magic like summoning demons but they can still on the good side.

Doesnt FFXIV have a Chinese Market & Playerbase?
I think I "Heard" it would be impossible because China has a thing against stuff like Necromancy. Something with the Dead. So China would get a slightly gimped/censored version of FFXIV that would hide a Necromancer. So they wouldn't have access to it, if the Cinematic shows it then it would get censored, and either they would be blocked from Necromancer players or the Job might have a visual censorship?....either way sounds like ALOT of work for SE and YoshiP and team to bring them in...but also censor it for the Chinese Audience.

I guess.....maybe they could sidestep and Avoid Summoning the Dead by reworking it into a Voidsent Summoner.
Basically Reaper but as a Caster. Maybe a Cultist or Witch Doctor of Sorts..

Im just guessing and pulling from a vague Memory.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Aside from the shade of Hildebrand who sometimes cameos in the dungeon, we never actually learn anything about any of them. They're half-summoned shades, we beat 'em up, and they dissipate (hopefully back to their own worlds and lives, but we don't actually know).

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Is it actually stated where the Necromancer in the dungeon is from?
I can't really remember.

Necromancers may be viewed differently in one of the reflection.

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Nothing is stated. There are theories which say each boss is from a FF game (The first is a character from FF6 and the necromancer boss is Lena from FF5) but nothing else. Not even a confirmation if they're summoned from other shards, timelines, or other universes.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

I just feel like SE has no ground to stand on anymore after reaper. Now it just makes them look extremely arbitrary at best, hypocrites at worst. I mean, if you really want to make necromancer look good, just write some bullshit like "the WoL can now conjure up noble, heroic spirits/bodies from the dead and have them fight the good fight".

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Conjure the powers and the spirits of your fallen comrades similarly to DRK but without actually summoning their spirits from the dead. Just an illusion that takes its shape and power from your memories. Here we go, another concept for necromancers that doesn't necessarily involve resurrecting the dead and using mindless zombies.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

My sister told me in Diablo that there was two types of Necromancers; one that used poison skills (good) and ones that used blood skills (bad). So you could technically create such a thing if the lore is right.

But how FF14 is written, everything “bad” comes from the Void. Poisons are seen as bad. And I can’t see a way to make a “good” Necromancer by FF14 lore; nature/elememtals seem to be connected with healing and thaumaturgy through the control of your aether. Same with other jobs.

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Bio is a popular spell/effect so we could have a bio-themed job. I think they removed bio from summoners so basically none of the current jobs are using bio.
The name's necromancer, the attacks are poison, and the job gear is a plague doctor themed.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It's been turned into another Yoshi-P bashing thread by the usual group lol.


Necromancer raise the dead without regards to their souls which is seen as evil. Always has been.

Reapers communed with a singular voidsent, which has a soul (I mean, they're just people from the void)

I don't see how these are the same thing.

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You don't see them the same, but from an in-universe perspective, you'll rarely find someone who doesn't. Voidsents are seen as evil demons, and so running around with one is a big no from the regular townsfolk.
And regarding resurrecting the dead, as I have said in the original post. A necromancer shouldn't necessarily be about resurrecting the dead. It can vary to many things without touching the aspect of having zombies fighting for you.

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Originally Posted by EagleDynamics

they can be seen as morally questionable for using dark or forbidden magic/arts but they can be used for good. other games like diablo have necromancers as playable characters so they can be definitely be on the good side. other similar classes like the warlock from wow also use "evil" or dark magic like summoning demons but they can still on the good side.

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Among the MMOs we currently have, guild wars stand out because the necromancers there aren't associated with evil at all. Instead, they have characters publicly known to be necromancers and are seen freely walking around. Some are even renowned as commanders and heroes. This shows you can create lore and in-game cultures where necromancers are good and not your generic evil wizards.