All addons are not equal

True they're not, while banning all of them is more or less a legal shield for SE so they don't have to sort out what's okay and what's not. That would be way too much work and let's be real there are other more pressing matters here. Just don't show them on stream or harass others with it and nothing will happen. (Still against the ToS, pls YoshiP don't ban me, I'm not endorsing, I'm a good little lizard!)

Some Mods for example change your character and while if you give your Hrothgar some ears with certain hairstyles, it's really harmless, however if you give your lala a huge male reproductive organ and take "erotic" screenshots with it, that is something the devs don't want to see as it's not really something you want your game associated with.

Same with some Ui changes. Is it bad to make a cooldowntimer bigger? I doubt it. It is however unfair if you have an add-on that shows you, where it is safe to stand while non telegraphed mechanics happen. That is just good old cheating.
And tbh I don't even care for them in an non competitive envoirment. It's whatever too me, I don't use it, and I don't have respect for people who do. But if you participate in the race to world first. It's unfair.
We don't really want that high end raider feel the need for those add-ons to be able to compete, we would end with the same climate WoW has, and that wouldn't be healthy.

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Originally Posted by YukiB

That's the problem.

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Legitimately curious what this problem is. You're not going to convince them to change the ToS, since this is literally legal text that goes well beyond the credentials of nearly every player of this game. Is the problem that people can't stand the idea that they're violating the ToS? As a 3rd party program user for this games still active predecessor, I can assure you that it gets easier and its not a big deal.

The way I see it - if someone uses these third party tools and then capitalizes on them by streaming it, they deserve whatever they get. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Also, can't fix stupid.

Your gif made me chuckle!

Good one!

Since ancient FFXIV times: "Don't use them. If you do, be discreet, don't get caught".

The same person has said: "If we have to start telling people what's ok and what isn't, there's no end to the discussion, so we won't do it".

Yes you're right, all addons are not functionally equal, but all of them are still addons and the TOS has been clear since day 1.

Acknowledge the wink wink, nudge nudge people have always been given about it. To more or less extent, people have used them in a semi-public yet discreet manner. This isn't a today or this month or this year thing. It has ALWAYS been the same. People being offered an inch and taking a mile are a problem. Applies to either side.

A lot of people use the "it is harmless" argument, But even if it is harmless, it is still not allowed. For a GM, doesn't mean anything if they have the obligation of taking action.

This is what people fails to understand, and they think the other are the ones that doesn't understand. Even if the application only writes hello in the game chat, it is still not allowed. Doesn't matter if it is harmless or not.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Legitimately curious what this problem is. You're not going to convince them to change the ToS, since this is literally legal text that goes well beyond the credentials of nearly every player of this game. Is the problem that people can't stand the idea that they're violating the ToS? As a 3rd party program user for this games still active predecessor, I can assure you that it gets easier and its not a big deal.

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The problem is exactly what I quoted. Not all add-ons have the same kind of impact on the game, but they're all treated the same in the ToS.

1. Some add-ons only affect the graphics or UI information displayed on the client. GShade, buff timers, chat bubbles for example. They have no impact on another player's experience.

2. Some add-ons address serious issues that could prevent certain players from performing as well as others, such as latency-based animation delays or lack of accessibility options. These could be seen as providing advantages if abused.

3. Some add-ons make mostly harmless hobbies in the game, like posing, music playing, or housing easier, but alter the game in ways that are perceivable by other players and may involve automation or glitches.

4. Some add-ons allow players to do things which are normally impossible or automate gameplay in ways that harm others' experiences, like gold farm or pvp botting.

Why should all these things be treated as equal?

IMO they should focus on the things that provide tangible advantages or affect other players' games. By that I mean aggressively ban #4, implement gameplay features that make #3 redundant, address the underlying issues associated with #2, and ignore or incorporate ideas from #1.

That does not mean scanning for mods like OP wants. That's gross and I hate it when any game company implements intrusive anti-cheat or DRM.

Mostly what SE has done in the past anyway is ignore everything but botting. The exception are cases where some people in this great community decide to witch hunt streamers or specific players for mods of the #1 variety, not because they're concerned about the use of mods but because they have a personal grudge against the player. SE's blanket ban on mods compels them to take action against these players even though the infraction is nowhere near as serious as #4. Whenever one of these cases goes public there's immediate backlash against it and a flurry of activity from worried forum posters. I think it would benefit SE to have more nuance on this issue.

We might not convince them to change the ToS, but we won't know unless we try.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

A lot of people use the "it is harmless" argument, But even if it is harmless, it is still not allowed. For a GM, doesn't mean anything if they have the obligation of taking action.

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Yet you dont see GMs banning a lot of big streamers who are publicly using dps meters and raid support addons so the "its not allowed" argument doesnt really work anymore.

Because big streamers have absolutely been reported for use of such addons with video evidence yet those reports have been ignored by GMs, banning a single JP streamer doesnt really change anything is 999 can get away with publicly using them

Agreed. But
Speed and murder are both against the law.

And if you get caught speed enough you loss you drivers license, then you speed with out a drivers license and Share a room with big Bob who is a murder.

Just because some are qol and some are out right cheating. They treat them all as the same.

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Originally Posted by YukiB

Why should all these things be treated as equal?

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Because that's how software works. You're still doing something to the game that is not intended. The way you're doing it is relying on modders to create programs/tools that interacts with folders/files/etc that are legally controlled by SE. Even altering the shortcuts directory pathing is, in a broad sense, a grey area if not an outright violation (due to that being the same action as redirecting it to 3rd party tool launchers). Severity is irrelevant when you're trying to curb bad actions from people. This is protection for the company at large, not any of us or even exclusively the XIV team.

No major company does otherwise in this regard and blanket statements are the go-to. Letting things go, as they have been doing, is simply giving players an out if they don't abuse it... so that they don't have to waste time trying to catch people for things that are extremely hard to prove, if not impossible in-game (like Gshade).

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Originally Posted by YukiB

We might not convince them to change the ToS, but we won't know unless we try.

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And I do encourage people to do that. I just rather people have stronger arguments that aren't correctly shut down immediately because they don't understand something as simple as a blanket legal text and how it'd be applied in context. I do agree that I would not want crap like Anti-Cheat in this game. Keep in mind however that, if forced to BY THE PLAYERS ACTIONS, they will go that route. Things would have to be really bad though to get to that point.

That said, like I pointed out about this being protection for the company, a handful of consumers aren't going to make them create unnecessary vulnerabilities. Most of us will just continue staying the course of using whatever, even if they don't say anything, because nothing actually changed for nearly everyone.