Tale of Emet [FF14 x Nier Reincarnation event story]

Bit odd that Emet claims to instantly recognize who his old friend is here, yet he was absolutely flabbergasted when he catches a glimpse of Azem's identity after the rejoining with Ardbert during the final fight in Amaurot. I wouldn't have expected him to deliberately create a plan to turn one of his closest friends into a monster and gloat over them as they're transforming. That entire scene reads very differently.

"They worship new gods." Guess this means the Twelve did not exist back then? I really hope some serious lore will come from 24-man raids (unlike Nier...)

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Bit odd that Emet claims to instantly recognize who his old friend is here, yet he was absolutely flabbergasted when he catches a glimpse of Azem's identity after the rejoining with Ardbert during the final fight in Amaurot. I wouldn't have expected him to deliberately create a plan to turn one of his closest friends into a monster and gloat over them as they're transforming. That entire scene reads very differently.

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He doesn't see the sundered as people, it's part of how he justifies doing what he does.

Recognizing that one of the sundered he meets is a reincarnation of an old friend puts a chink in that armor though, the plan came across as a test, but a test that the WoL was probably meant to fail, Emet's end goal seems to be to reassure himself that he's right about the sundered.

We pass in the end though, knocking down a fairly important strut shoring up his worldview in the process. He rants and raves and refuses to accept it, we fight, we kick his butt, he concedes (sort of.)

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Originally Posted by Lurina

Paint comes first, then the other two.

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I presented the quote exactly how it was in the game: “song and scripture and paint”.

Other than that, it’s just conjecture as to when the memories of the Sundering were preserved and in what order. I took it from the context of when Ryne asked if he recognized the scenes on the mural to mean the people who woke up right after the Sundering in the first generation. It would be silly to suggest people born after to remember something they weren’t present for.

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Originally Posted by Emet-Selch

That I do. Indeed, there was a time when anyone and everyone would. Until one calamitous day when the world was divided across ten and three reflections, sundering the land and all who dwelled upon it. And the worst part? No one could remember it. Not really. Just fragments and fleeting memories of an achingly familiar world... A vision shared of a paradise lost, preserved only in song and scripture and paint... Once upon a time. Yet here we find ourselves again. To look, learn, and remember...

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Originally Posted by Lurina

I don't really think you can argue unreliable narrator for a situation where the script directly quotes the grunts and moans of the people without the knowledge to speak. More to the point, if they weren't speaking a tongue Emet could understand, that means it was certain the "first generation" Sundered didn't have language. They take generations to develop; a new one wouldn't just appear spontaneously for him to then be ignorant of.

Though, the writers could just have a loose or divided understanding of the facts themselves, obviously.

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That script is still from his own point of view and the context we see is also him walking among what looks like spirits who haven’t materialized, not cavemen. The link you provided also says in the very first line that it took 100,000 years after humanity emerged for language to be created while in Final Fantasy XIV we’re on a much smaller timeline of a couple thousand years at best.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I presented the quote exactly how it was in the game: “song and scripture and paint”.

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I wasn't saying your quote was wrong, I was just suggesting a literal order of how it might've happened to make both sources congruous. Apologies if I was confusing.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

That script is still from his own point of view and the context we see is also him walking among what looks like spirits who haven’t materialized, not cavemen. The link you provided also says in the very first line that it took 100,000 years after humanity emerged for language to be created while in Final Fantasy XIV we’re on a much smaller timeline of a couple thousand years at best.

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My point is that it couldn't have happened instantly, not the timescale. The fact that Emet cannot understand them indicates that they are not speaking the Ancient language. Thus, there must have been a period where they had lost the knowledge or ability to do so, but had not yet developed a replacement. Even if he failed to realize immediately when they eventually did.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

The fact that Emet cannot understand them indicates that they are not speaking the Ancient language. Thus, there must have been a period where they had lost the knowledge or ability to do so, but had not yet developed a replacement. Even if he failed to realize immediately when they eventually did.

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Them not speaking Ancient language should not impede someone who has echo. The only case where we couldn't understand language was Alpha, who had no soul.

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Originally Posted by Erendis

Them not speaking Ancient language should not impede someone who has echo. The only case where we couldn't understand language was Alpha, who had no soul.

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That's even more of an argument that they had no language for a while, then. You can't turn on your soul's auto-translate if there's nothing to translate to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Erendis

"They worship new gods." Guess this means the Twelve did not exist back then? I really hope some serious lore will come from 24-man raids (unlike Nier...)

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The first raid story mentioned they only started being worshipped after the Calamities weakened the veil between their realm and the Source due to people starting to see them so it is reasonable that the twelve religion did not start during the early days after the sundering. It probably took multiple Calamities before the Twelve religion fully formed which from this lore video about Emet we see may have taken thousands to millions of years.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Bit odd that Emet claims to instantly recognize who his old friend is here, yet he was absolutely flabbergasted when he catches a glimpse of Azem's identity after the rejoining with Ardbert during the final fight in Amaurot. I wouldn't have expected him to deliberately create a plan to turn one of his closest friends into a monster and gloat over them as they're transforming. That entire scene reads very differently.

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To me it looks like he recognises Azem's soul hue in the same scene from Shadowbringers, well before Ardbert rejoins us.

Shadowbringers:

https://i.imgur.com/mIaembA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/or4iVRO.png

Same scene from Nier:

https://i.imgur.com/ADUhC0a.png

https://i.imgur.com/w4JMdX3.png

https://i.imgur.com/3haGHtr.png

Perhaps he did know. Perhaps his reaction to eighth rejoining was because the sundered mankind inched closer to equal footing with the ancients, rather than him just seeing a glance of Azem.

Emet must have known that one day he'd have to deal with the sundered Azem. He probably figured that Azem would never allow rejoinings to happen, and would end up successfully convincing Emet to change his mind and course. Azem wouldn't be an ally and trying to convince them to join the Ascian cause would be useless. Thus, the only way to deal with the sundered Azem was to unleash havoc on them. Perhaps his monstrous approach, his role as a megalomaniac villain, him succumbing to madness was a deliberate choice to take the edge off killing the sundered Azem (multiple times). At that point it must've been easier to deal with madness rather than the grief over a sundered's old friends misery and the doubt that would inflict on his goals.

But I feel like this might be too farfetched, and the Nier story isn't fully canon, or this portion is just being interpreted wrong.