Why people still seem to be disagreeing about SAM/Kaiten

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I'm personally in the camp where "Criticals" should be the result of completing a conditional instead of random or auto applied.

That's a little incompatible with stats as they are currently, but outside some notable RNG situations, that's how PVP works. Every class has a few critical conditions.

Just spitballing, imagine if any Draw Attack gaining its critical bonus was connected to successfully defending with Third Eye*. Now I'm not going to pretend that's a great example, but consider how you might have to bend and change to individual encounters to land as many of those as possible.

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We already do this with burst windows though. They just come up every 2 minutes. As someone pointed out in another post, 2m windows makes damage phases fairly strict. Making them more freeform might help, but also dependence on buffs in general. Sam hit high numbers with a lot of assistance, and the changes just keeps their numbers at an average that doesn't rely on as much assistance. Not saying it's right, but that's how it is. A lot of it's just changing how the critical strike stat works because as it works now, it double dips on chance and damage. That alone makes it an insanely good stat.

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Originally Posted by AsiTsurugi

Here's why I think their excuse in this regard is completely nonsense: they changed NIN to have even higher burst than before (while, again, gutting the core identity of the job), which is perfect for a fight with tons of short burst phases and mechanics-only phases approximately 60s apart like Dragonsong ultimate. And yet they want us to think only samurai has this "issue" with respect to "crit variance", when NIN routinely invalidates these DPS checks they thought were so sacrosanct that they saw fit to effectively remove an entire job from the game and replace it with as much of a nothing as Yoshida's apology posts.

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Yeah, I'm aware. They jumped through a lot of excuses when they removed Kaiten. They were never plain with us, they just treated us like an underpaid QA team to test their shitty changes. Probably will continue that trend and just say "Oh these changes are fine, people are still clearing content with them!" While that is a true statement, it's still completely missing the point. The fact that ninja and samurai swapped places in representation shows what people think of the changes, and I'm one of those that swapped too. But hey, my retainer is BIS, so there's that I suppose.

6.1 Changes were just Lazy, Negative and unnecessary

Main points I read revolving Kaiten removal would be " Less Damage Fluctuations " and " Dev Development balancing benefits ". I call those lazy excuses. I remain unconvinced that 6.1 Kaiten Removal was necessary to achieve any of it. Don't tell me its impossible to achieve both balance and keep Kaiten.

How far do we need to change SAM / Delete skills, until our Balancing and Number output desires are satisfied? how Simplistic/Homogenized is too Simplistic/Homogenized? I simply draw the line at Kaiten removal.

Kaiten provided means for Kenki Management, interactions and Depth. Execute this wrong? Game punishes you. Execute it right? Game rewards you with big hits, a flavor of great animation as a bonus with a layer of skill-expression as an icing. We got promised more, while having to endure with less. They wanna remove it? replace it with something equally satisfying and better. Did they remove it? Yes. Did they replace it with something? No.

All we got are Auto-Crits and Potencies. If you're satisfied by those changes or " Numbers " great. Crunching numbers to the decimal and how that improves gameplay? go have at it? But I am not satisfied by the Gameplay changes that are all Less meaningful now to me, no matter how amazingly calculated these numbers will be.

Kaiten removal just means Less gameplay, Less Satisfying, Less Execution, Less Depth, Less of all of it to me. End of story.