PvP Actions Design & How It Could Translate to PvE

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

Lmao how many people just read the title.
No, for a simple reason, you may think it is fluid others find it boring to have less buttons.
The lack of an AC allows you to acquire tools designing how you want to play the game by downgrading your required buttons but never upgrade.
I, for one have no issue of the bloat and find it quite more enjoyable to press a different button every time.

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Typically, people that start off their argument 'for a simple reason" haven't really thought this issue through.

1- I don't believe that most people would intend that the current PVP design would be translated identically, skill by skill, for each job over to PVE
2- YOU may enjoy button bloat , many other people are not happy to see skills that do not synergize well, or are never used OR a lack of skills in one area and a bloated kit in another area - such as a bloated healing toolkit but a pathetic lack of DPS options for healers

I note that you posted from a reaper. I really haven't noticed complaints from reapers, however I don't main reaper. Personally I find that reaper has a very designed toolkit, skills flow together nicely, virtually every skill gets used and it is fairly intuitive, You will use multiple skill naturally in PVE. It's a lot of fun in PVE. It's quite possible that you could have very few changes in the the next few months or so- it's the bright and shiny new toy and it shows a lot of attention.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

1- I don't believe that most people would intend that the current PVP design would be translated identically, skill by skill, for each job over to PVE

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That was never the question nor my answer, I refered to "jobs that have a 1,2,3 combo, for example, feel like a breath of fresh air in PvP.[...]".

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

2- YOU may enjoy button bloat , many other people are not happy to see skills that do not synergize well, or are never used OR a lack of skills in one area and a bloated kit in another area - such as a bloated healing toolkit but a pathetic lack of DPS options for healers

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He is directly talking about 1,2,3 combos, not perfect timing, not simplified abilities and that was my direct answer to that, there are enough tools to simplify this 1,2,3 combos but none to upgrade these. Arguably, you could talk about how this is unfair for console players but if you keep being realistic yoship will never simplify combos nor give an option to opt out, the backlash would be immense and the gain almost zero.

A bit condescending there. I don’t mind them tacking on combo to one if they give more buttons to fix in between lvl where you get passives that upgrade your attack dmg I find this to be dumb but I understand they want to control the output of players. McH gun mage been asking for that back would be fun to have again. Agree with not everything should be adapted into PvE but I can lie and say something wouldn’t be pretty cool to see

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

That was never the question nor my answer, I refered to "jobs that have a 1,2,3 combo, for example, feel like a breath of fresh air in PvP.[...]".



He is directly talking about 1,2,3 combos, not perfect timing, not simplified abilities and that was my direct answer to that, there are enough tools to simplify this 1,2,3 combos but none to upgrade these. Arguably, you could talk about how this is unfair for console players but if you keep being realistic yoship will never simplify combos nor give an option to opt out, the backlash would be immense and the gain almost zero.

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First of all, your answer never referred specifically to '1,2, 3" button combos. Secondly, OP referred to that as an example, however that was not the entire scope of OP's post. You may be correct regarding that specific point however this discussion is by no means limited to just that example.

One of the main points is that the changes in PVP design have been seen as positive to many players- could be many reasons- such as more engagement, better synergy, etc.

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

if you keep being realistic yoship will never simplify combos nor give an option to opt out, the backlash would be immense and the gain almost zero.

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Have you looked at the new SMN? Yoshi-P did exactly what you said he would never do. Literally. I mean SMN is word for word, what you said he would never do. So... yeah

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

He is directly talking about 1,2,3 combos, not perfect timing, not simplified abilities and that was my direct answer to that, there are enough tools to simplify this 1,2,3 combos but none to upgrade these.

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What are you talking about? I'm not being facetious; the above sentence doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Tenken7

Have you looked at the new SMN? Yoshi-P did exactly what you said he would never do. Literally. I mean SMN is word for word, what you said he would never do. So... yeah



What are you talking about? I'm not being facetious; the above sentence doesn't make sense.

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Right and for the most part people consider new SMN incredibly boring.

I'm curious on what specific aspects from the PVP skills they would like to see translated. I haven't played every class but for the most part they all seem to play very similarly to their PVE counterparts just sped up to accommodate for it being PVP. Like PVP War is near 1-to-1 with it's PVE counterpart, PLD as well. DRK and GNB have unique mechanics in Draw and Junction and the HP cost for Shadowbringer which I guess would be interesting.

I feel like the biggest issue is that if they try to give the jobs more unique attributes/abilities it makes it much harder to keep them all close to each in other in terms of balance which seems to be more important for both the devs and the community.

Likewise what specific abilities would people want to see trimmed from the PVE skillsets? Like for Scholar the only ability I could really see getting trimmed is Emergency Tactics since I'm pretty sure it is one of it's least used skills. Everything else is used pretty regularly as the fights demand. I also don't see any abilities being able to be combined together on Scholars kit.

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Originally Posted by Tenken7

Have you looked at the new SMN? Yoshi-P did exactly what you said he would never do. Literally. I mean SMN is word for word, what you said he would never do. So... yeah



What are you talking about? I'm not being facetious; the above sentence doesn't make sense.

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Yeah and i don't want to see that again, my god summoner is boring

Some traits we see in PvP would be a great addition to PvE, like OP already mentioned the Combo actions into one Button (since Squeenix constantly complains about Button bloat, yet Jobs like SAM have 3 Combo's spread over 8 Buttons that just deal damage).

Another great thing would be if they translated a SIMILAR Job identity like in PvP into PvE, since that is the main thing Jobs lack in PvE content. Keep LB3 as it is, but turn every Jobs LB1 and LB2 into a unique Job specific action.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Right and for the most part people consider new SMN incredibly boring.

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You said Yoshi-P would never do something-->I replied with an example of Yoshi-P doing exactly that "something"-->You come back and act as if I am praising said "something"

Reason and coherence aren't this forum's strong suit, are they?

Here I'll restate my point:
We could learn a thing or two from PvP action design in terms of action flow and lack of bloat.

No, I am not saying reduce the number of action
I am saying we should clean up the bloat and consolidate in favor of more interesting and engaging action.

It doesn't require any skill to push 1,2,3. None! Zero! Anyone who praises such design is buying into the illusion of complexity.

Asking for things to be clean and neat does not equate to asking for things to be dumbed down.

Again, you are hearing what you want to hear and not what is actually being said.