I would like to encourage everyone to keep providing the feedback YoshiP asked for.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s moreso the bias of it all. People have been completely silent when it comes to healer issues, there’s even a thread talking about how no one cared until it’s now affecting them. The thing is, if y’all had been as loud for healers as you are for samurai right now, you might not even be in this situation to begin with. The simplifying and job gutting started with healers. It was only healer mains that were giving feedback and begging for changes and everyone else basically said to shut up and stop whining it’s “fine.” But now that it affects you guys all of a sudden this is a major problem and the idea of job favoritism is brought up? That’s what i have a problem with. I’m fine with people expressing their annoyance over the changes and what have you, i’m just pointing out the laughable double standard, bias, and hypocrisy of this community. And like i said, once you all get your changes you aren’t going to stick around to help healers, you’ll all be content and happy and we’ll be left to being ignored again.

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You are pairing us with a generalization and that is not fair. When you say "people" or "you guys" you should know better that we are not "everyone else". For the record Samurai wasn't 100% perfect either and there were many things that could have used QOL or touchups. We didn't receive them until much later and even then they reintroduce more problems or are completely different from what we asked. You have my support, if that means anything. Just please stop with trying to pick a fight when everyone should be in unison in pushing for change. It's in everyone's best interests.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s moreso the bias of it all. People have been completely silent when it comes to healer issues, there’s even a thread talking about how no one cared until it’s now affecting them. The thing is, if y’all had been as loud for healers as you are for samurai right now, you might not even be in this situation to begin with. The simplifying and job gutting started with healers. It was only healer mains that were giving feedback and begging for changes and everyone else basically said to shut up and stop whining it’s “fine.” But now that it affects you guys all of a sudden this is a major problem and the idea of job favoritism is brought up? That’s what i have a problem with. I’m fine with people expressing their annoyance over the changes and what have you, i’m just pointing out the laughable double standard, bias, and hypocrisy of this community. And like i said, once you all get your changes you aren’t going to stick around to help healers, you’ll all be content and happy and we’ll be left to being ignored again.

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I've said this to more than one healer main, and I'll repeat it to you - I am not a healer main. Repeat *NOT* a healer main. Changes and nerfs to healers largely go unnoticed by me because I mostly play tanks and DPS. I dabble from time to time, but I don't have even a fraction of the time invested or personal investment into the role that you do, and the same can be said for the majority of SAMs who are making their feelings known on the server. It sucks that healers are having a bad time of it, but besides standing behind you to wave a flag of support and yell "That's it! You go tell them what's what!" I don't know what else you expect any of us to do. By the same token, I can't jump in and help out the MCH mains who *are* the same role as me because I don't play the class. It's like asking a rocket scientist to give a keynote speech on neurosurgery... Sure they're smart, they're articulate and they might be willing to help but if they've got little to no knowledge of the subject matter then anything they really have to say is moot, unless of course you write the speech for them.
We can't give you want you're asking for, but what you can do is stop hijacking our threads to vent your own issues with a role we don't play. I get that misery loves company, but if you can allow the playerbase to set a precedent for rolling back changes in one area, then you might open up the door for the devs to listen to feedback from other areas. Either you can ask us for support and support us in kind, or your can make yourself out to be the bad guy and claim favouritism because DPS players are standing up for themselves but you can't have it both ways.

While I don't play Samurai as my main job, I do have a samurai alt at level 70 which I was pretty excited to level further and eventually do endgame content with. If these changes stay in the game it's unlikely I'll ever touch that character again.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s moreso the bias of it all. People have been completely silent when it comes to healer issues, there’s even a thread talking about how no one cared until it’s now affecting them. The thing is, if y’all had been as loud for healers as you are for samurai right now, you might not even be in this situation to begin with. The simplifying and job gutting started with healers. It was only healer mains that were giving feedback and begging for changes and everyone else basically said to shut up and stop whining it’s “fine.” But now that it affects you guys all of a sudden this is a major problem and the idea of job favoritism is brought up? That’s what i have a problem with. I’m fine with people expressing their annoyance over the changes and what have you, i’m just pointing out the laughable double standard, bias, and hypocrisy of this community. And like i said, once you all get your changes you aren’t going to stick around to help healers, you’ll all be content and happy and we’ll be left to being ignored again.



Again, i dont know how many times it needs to be said, people have given suggestions, for 6 whole years. Yoshi P even read one of them at the LL, the devs are aware of them. They just do.not.care. He literally said to go do ultimate if you want the healer role to feel engaging. WE have been constructive, we have been respectful, we have been very specific on wha it is we want and we've gotten nothing in return.

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Then, again, what value are you bringing here with your posts and responses? I'm failing to understand what is productive of your constant pessimism. 6 years? Samurai have also dealt with bad neglect since the beginning of Stormblood. Many were excluded from parties for simply being Samurai. I was told to play NIN instead from people who filled in for my static and they performed half as well as I did. Just because they are stubborn, you give up? Push harder. Keep going until they do something.

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Originally Posted by Roxus

Then, again, what value are you bringing here with your posts and responses? I'm failing to understand what is productive of your constant pessimism. 6 years? Samurai have also dealt with bad neglect since the beginning of Stormblood. Many were excluded from parties for simply being Samurai. I was told to play NIN instead from people who filled in for my static and performed half as well as I did. Just because they are stubborn, you give up? Push harder. Keep going until they do something.

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I’m just simply saying, don’t expect change when the healers haven’t gotten any for 6 years. More power to you guys though if you keep up the brigade on this for 6+ years as well. I’m just pointing out though, i find it a bit ironic. The amount of threads filling up the forum about this samurai change. In the end these threads do push down other threads, so unfortunately healer threads are affected by them. It’s not about them being stubborn,they’re lazy devs. They don’t want to fix it. Either way, mark my words. I’ve seen this happen before and it’s going to happen again. These forums will be clogged up by samurai complaints, the devs will eventually give in because dps is the pandered role, and then we’ll go back to praising the game, having the healers on the back end of everything and dps gets to be satisfied.

Whats mainly rich though is someone trying to say healers need to sit back and watch how dps players get things changed, when in reality again, its a pandered role that receives the most attention. Theres nothing to sit back and watch for lmao.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The amount of threads filling up the forum about this samurai change. In the end these threads do push down other threads, so unfortunately healer threads are affected by them.

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Not to be 'the guy' but this is a blatant lie.
I haven't seen a single SAM thread posted in Healer Roles. They've all been limited to the DPS roles messageboard, which is where you're currently posting. If healers are posting their problems with healers in the DPS section, you should expect that your threads will get ignored and pushed down by DPS players posting in the DPS section. Samurai players posting their feedback which was specifically requested by the devs does *NOT* affect healers in the slightest, you coming in and derailing SAM threads to complain about healing *DOES* affect these DPS threads though - so if you wanna point out a double standard, you could start by looking in the mirror.

Someone's taking "Green DPS" too literally.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I’m just simply saying, don’t expect change when the healers haven’t gotten any for 6 years. More power to you guys though if you keep up the brigade on this for 6+ years as well. I’m just pointing out though, i find it a bit ironic. The amount of threads filling up the forum about this samurai change. In the end these threads do push down other threads, so unfortunately healer threads are affected by them. It’s not about them being stubborn,they’re lazy devs. They don’t want to fix it. Either way, mark my words. I’ve seen this happen before and it’s going to happen again. These forums will be clogged up by samurai complaints, the devs will eventually give in because dps is the pandered role, and then we’ll go back to praising the game, having the healers on the back end of everything and dps gets to be satisfied.

Whats mainly rich though is someone trying to say healers need to sit back and watch how dps players get things changed, when in reality again, its a pandered role that receives the most attention. Theres nothing to sit back and watch for lmao.

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Take your doomposting misery and leave it outside of the thread. People are trying to campaign in their own right to make the changes for it. Just because you are jaded from not getting changes you wanted all this time does not mean that you should attempt to discourage others from attempting to do the same.

It's actually cringe-worthy seeing you play the victim card trying to lord over the fact that because of your state, others literally don't have any hope of doing so. Do us a favor and keep your resignation to yourself. We do not need that and apologize that you got shafted.

Let’s not get off topic here. This discussion is about the 6.1 samurai changes. Taking a “healers vs dps” approach is neither helpful nor kind to do.

Voicing our displeasure with the general gameplay philosophy that comes with the 6.1 samurai changes is very fair for the player base to do. I understand that game developers are human and humans make mistakes. The point of this discussion is to show that there was an oversight in their decision making this patch and if we make enough noise, they’ll see what we see.

We can discuss our opinions in a constructive manner without trying to bring down other players’ experience.

I'm not sure how a large quantity of threads being made on the dps role forum could possibly overshadow healer threads. If anyone would want to complain about it, it'd be other DPS. But I don't see many NIN or MCH players coming into these threads and raising a stink about how their issues are being ignored.

That being said I think the main difference between healer feedback and samurai feedback in this case is that SAM players are pretty united in their feedback and what they want done, whereas healer feedback all kind of agrees that healer feels unfun and unsatisfying to play, every healer seems to have a completely different ideal about how to deal with that problem. Most Samurai players want is kaiten back and auto-crits removed, it's a lot easier to implement feedback when it's that clear and universal.