so why the devs never use 90% of the content for end game?

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

Yes, like the blue mage. With this job every player did thoroughly rediscover every little details of the overworld, going from some mobs to another, thinking with excitement "how come i did never see this place even existed ?" and "i wonder what this mob attacks are, maybe i will learn a good skill ?".

Just joking, everyone did watch at some guide to get rid of "exploration" and "hidden secrets" as fast as possible.

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Like they do with raids? What's your point? Everything in this game can be boiled down to just following a guide. May as well turn it into a visual novel, in that case, and strip out all gameplay elements, because you can use a guide.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

They TRY to do this with the FATE Gemstones, Hunts, and Treasure Maps, but that ends up only helping a little. I agree with you and would love if they figured something out to make FATEs more attractive.

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When I first started playing I though FATEs were the greatest thing until I actually tried them. They're subpar when it comes to exp and even the revamped fates don't offer much. In the time it takes to farm gemstones for mats I can just go kill the mobs or farm the mats and get 3x as much. The rewards we got this time in EW are sad to say the least. We got boxes, all of Garlemald to pull from for inspiration and we got boxes....

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

I don't know ... exploration in the MMOs you've mentioned is pretty, um, down on the list of things to do. And if it has some rewards to make it worth doing, there are add-ons (WoW/ESO) to tell you exactly where to go, or you can look it up on wowhead or the ESO/Lost Ark equivalents, so it's not really "exploration". It's making a list and checking it twice.

I'm assuming Theodric finished the sightseeing log without consulting one of the many websites that list every one of them.

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This is like saying SE should stop making Savage Raids because you can find guide videos on Youtube. Or stop making Sightseeing logs, hunts, etc. because people will more than likely use third-party tools to aid them in doing them.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

FFXIV struggles immensely with that by virtue of having very little reason to engage with the open world.

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FATEs.
Daily hunts.
Monster trains.
Materials farming.
Role-play.
Parties at the beach.
Sightseeing logs.
Screenshots.

There are things to do in the open world. That they don't appeal to those who are jaded in a "been there, done that, so I don't need to do it anymore" kind of way does not equal "[players] have very little reason to engage with the open world". The reasons are there already. Participation is optional.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Role-play.
Parties at the beach.
Screenshots.

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I am questionable about counting these things -- as they dont really interact with the open world but more use them as a prop for their own drive (especially since three of these are more server dependent than anything else). I think what Theodoric is asking for is more open World content or more meaningful content with FATEs and Hunts than just what they are now.

EDIT: Also parties at beaches and RP are mostly also the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Fates are boring because they're lifeless and they suck. They don't change or impact the world in anyway at all. Oh hey mobs are attacking a settlement. Kill them all or ignore them it makes no difference.

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A suggestion: don't ever play Guild Wars 2. Their equivalent of FATEs is exactly as you describe, yet it is considered by players as one of the primary reasons they enjoy the game, especially the harder events that requires many players.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Fates are boring because they're lifeless and they suck. They don't change or impact the world in anyway at all. Oh hey mobs are attacking a settlement. Kill them all or ignore them it makes no difference.

Treasure maps kinda meh. When the big rewards are tied into instances content like canals, aquopolis or others. It's hardly open world content at all.



Can you though? All those dungeons and things are instances content disconnected from the open world.

I mean how cool would it be if you could actually go mining in the copper bell mines or something like that?

Could be in a group of players running through to kill a boss and spot random people just mining away as you make your way through..

This used to be one of my favorite things about XI in its day. Nearly everything was open world and it made the world so alive. Never knew what you'd see as you went from place to place.. could be running through a zone and come across people in an exp party or fighting a boss that you might never have seen before. Or hunting a notorious monster for a strong piece of gear.. the world was always full of People.

14 by comparison is a barren wasteland. I might occasionally spot someone on the way to the same gathering node I am but thats usually it. If I'm really lucky I might see an s rank being fought. But they die in 30 seconds so that's hardly an interesting fight to watch...

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There are instanced dungeons and then, if i remember correctly there were a few that were pretty close to non-instanced, where anyone could enter, there wasn’t a set limit so it was essentially overworld exploration, as the places themselves had their own things to explore and weren’t hallway simulator. There were also like, what i believe to be the equivalent of at the very least trial bosses out in the overworld, which i never really saw get one shot like hunts do. I did a few with a friend and they were actually really fun and challenging as they had actual mechanics to watch out for. Eso just feels much more alive to me in comparison in the overworld at least. You not only have a vast amount of players around either getting materials or doing npc quests, but there’s numerous npc encampments, there’s random npc events where like, you may see two npc mages chatting and then teleport off somewhere.

FFXIV is not an open world game. The instanced structure should probably have clued you in to this fact.

Even in open world games, however, zones still have a finite lifespan. Elden Ring was the best open world experience that I've had in a long time, and even there you'll find that backtracking to earlier zones feels largely trivial even if there's a missed achievement or boss that you're going after for completion purposes. That's a function of the game experience - when you've 'conquered' a zone and filled in the map with waypoints, it ceases to feel dangerous (even moreso when you're able to fly). Scaling up mobs does nothing to change this feeling. I'm not really sure why Warcraft was ever mentioned as something to aspire to here, because it was pretty much built on top of the carcasses of dead zones.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

FFXIV is not an open world game. The instanced structure should probably have clued you in to this fact.

Even in open world games, however, zones still have a finite lifespan. Elden Ring was the best open world experience that I've had in a long time, and even there you'll find that backtracking to earlier zones feels largely trivial even if there's a missed achievement or boss that you're going after for completion purposes. That's a function of the game experience - when you've 'conquered' a zone and filled in the map with waypoints, it ceases to feel dangerous (even moreso when you're able to fly). Scaling up mobs does nothing to change this feeling. I'm not really sure why Warcraft was ever mentioned as something to aspire to here, because it was pretty much built on top of the carcasses of dead zones.

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There’s games that mix both an open world and instanced areas and blends them in smoothly where you have reasons to go to old areas and to explore but then also features things like instanced raids or dungeons. If other mmo’s can do both i don’t see why 14 can’t.

They should update the challenge log with more interesting rewards other than a tiny amount of gil and some exp, always wanted more of a weekly WT for open world stuff.