White Mage Band-Aid Suggestions

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

They aren't going to fix White Mage, the most popularly played healer. 6 years has taught us suggestions are useless with this dev team.

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I think this is because the other healers arent as accessible. So not realy a reliable number in the first place.

And 6 years is nothing extreme for something this small (be honest, most players arent maximizing their role anyway. forums are always a minority of the playerbase). WHM works in most content without issues. Its just that those who want to take it to the limit simply cant, and have to resolve to other roles to do that. This is why its hard to fix, you dont want to upset the current players by changing everything.

Putting everything off the GCD has the side effect that the cast pacing changes with it, essentialy forcing those players to do more than before. Ideal fixes do therefor keep the GCD in place, although this is significantly harder to do because the GCD is what causes a big part of the issues.

Playing another role is a bandaid for some players, but not for the role. And those other roles are already somewhat diffirent to WHM, so that realy is not a solution for everyone.

Band aid:
Misery: Make it (at least) DPS-neutral
Thin air: At least one more charge and/or also grant instant cast
Lilys: Faster charge + 3 stacks at start of encounter

Lilies, if we strip them down mechanically, are just 30s CD spells sharing a recast timer, on 3 charges.
Charge based skills always come at max charges at the start of the instance, i don't understand why lilies don't

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Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya

Lilies, if we strip them down mechanically, are just 30s CD spells sharing a recast timer, on 3 charges.
Charge based skills always come at max charges at the start of the instance, i don't understand why lilies don't

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Probably because lilies can be thrown away for Misery (which decentivizes the skill as a healing tool) and not being able to use lilies/misery out of combat feels even weirder.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

Probably because lilies can be thrown away for Misery (which decentivizes the skill as a healing tool) and not being able to use lilies/misery out of combat feels even weirder.

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I don't think it'd be that big of an issue. You don't use AF/Addersgall skills out of combat either because out of combat HP/MP regen kicks in.

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Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya

I don't think it'd be that big of an issue. You don't use AF/Addersgall skills out of combat either because out of combat HP/MP regen kicks in.

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But that is where the difference lies. AF/Addersgall can be saved out of combat because they have no DPS resource directly tied to their usage until in combat, but Lilies become a DPS gain when used outside of combat. If that was the case, the norm would be to just throw away all your lilies if you start with 3 stacks to start off with Misery in your opener, so you'd be left in the same location as not having lilies anyway.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

But that is where the difference lies. AF/Addersgall can be saved out of combat because they have no DPS resource directly tied to their usage until in combat, but Lilies become a DPS gain when used outside of combat. If that was the case, the norm would be to just throw away all your lilies if you start with 3 stacks to start off with Misery in your opener, so you'd be left in the same location as not having lilies anyway.

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If nothing was changed then yes but i was implying that using lilies out of combat wouldn't feed into misery just how using cards out of combat doesn't feed into the seals gauge. That way you start with 3 heals ready to go and still can optimize by blowing Lillies during a fight downtime.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Or? Play another role?

They aren't going to fix White Mage, the most popularly played healer. 6 years has taught us suggestions are useless with this dev team.

So? Play another role.

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It took the dev team 8 years to rework Monk and Summoner, two jobs that the player bases requested full reworks on almost since day one. The dev team does listen. Some times they dig their heels in real hard on something, but if the player base gets loud enough they have always eventually relented. Reworks on certain jobs. Male Viera. Cast times on physical ranged. rDPS buffs and songs getting added back to Bard. The list goes on and on.

Healers is a role they clearly are more careful about, and one they are definitely more resistant to changing. And in a way I understand their reasoning. As a Bad healer 100% can ruin the experience for other players more so then any other role. That being said, there is only so long they can keep ignoring it, and the feedback is getting louder then ever before.

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Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya

If nothing was changed then yes but i was implying that using lilies out of combat wouldn't feed into misery just how using cards out of combat doesn't feed into the seals gauge. That way you start with 3 heals ready to go and still can optimize by blowing Lillies during a fight downtime.

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That's even more reasons why to never use the lily gauge - as it stands currently, it's a DPS loss to use during combat, and not all situations have downtime where you can't hit the enemy to start throwing away your gauge. Simply having three charges on start of combat doesn't do anything for White Mage because you would still have to wait for people to take damage before it suddenly becomes useful. That pretty much means you'd be overcapping for the beginning of the fight - which also incentivizes bad design if you can't throw away lilies at the beginning of the fight when healing isn't necessary to build for misery.

This is also where addersgall and Aetherflow differ from lilies - mainly because their oGCDs are tied to ways that can be effective at full HP or near full HP - Sacred Soil / Kerachole / Excogitation. This is innately because the skills used are delayed healing skills or heals over time. Burning a lily isn't equivalent since you'd be mostly wasting the skill when near full HP because the skill can only heal raw HP immediately, and because it's also a GCD action.

At least for cards currently, it's such a minor DPS gain for getting 3 seals in Astrodyne (where your RNG doesn't guarantee you can get 2 or 3 different seals) that it doesn't really matter whether or not you play during combat or not as Divination has no longer been tied to the seal mechanic.

Edit: To clarify, I meant playing a card out of combat as in - a second or two before Combat starts and the using the buff hasn't registered to gain a seal, not playing it and wasting half the buff. Ideally you wouldn't waste it in general, but Astrodyne's main function is really for MP upkeep atm if anything. The increased self spell speed and atk/healing buff is very marginal in what it can do as opposed to a huge potency change like lilies.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

That's even more reasons why to never use the lily gauge - as it stands currently, it's a DPS loss to use during combat, and not all situations have downtime where you can't hit the enemy to start throwing away your gauge. Simply having three charges on start of combat doesn't do anything for White Mage because you would still have to wait for people to take damage before it suddenly becomes useful. That pretty much means you'd be overcapping for the beginning of the fight - which also incentivizes bad design if you can't throw away lilies at the beginning of the fight when healing isn't necessary to build for misery.

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Again you keep arguing with an unchanged system. Ofc Lilies would be made DPS neutral if there was such radical change in usage.
Using lilies during downtime exclusively is a awful system and it has no excuse to keep being that way.