Genuine Scholar feedback

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Originally Posted by EaMett

It doesn't have to be. You could simply make a eukrasian toxicon that uses an addersgale stack instead of addersting. Since it's dps neutral and on the GCD it isn't a big deal. Not that SGE really needs more mobility. But there are ways of making it work. Right now we just spam heals on full party members for the MP, not exactly amazing gameplay.

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Oh yes, don't get me wrong, what you are stating can definitely work. Making a spender that works off the GCD and gives you movement can work.

It seems to me like a lot of people want something off the GCD though which would then affect your dosis for sure.

For SGE I would be more in the camp of a small shield potency that can also trigger addersting.

Maybe for scholar a slight boost to your fairy? Pet potencies are already weaker than what is stated maybe bring it up to par for like 10 seconds?

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

This is what baffles me about Sages that want a spender.

Everytime I hear the dps spender for Sage argument, they come at it like it's gonna be an addition to their current kit

Please be mindful that adding a DPS spender to Sage will decrease your Dosis potency.

SE ain't really in the buisness of just giving you flat damage without adjusting for it somewhere else.

You would then be in the same exact boat as Scholar and you wouldn't even gain damage out of it lol

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To be fair if they add something identical like SCH's ED I'd be flat out disappointed, as both of them are already carbon copies of one another in several ways. In my 'perfect world', it would be SGE who would receive a button akin to current iteration of SCH's Energy Drain: DPS spender for their own performance, unaffecting anybody else, or at least a spender to buff themselves. Imho it fits well to how they were first presented as 1 from 2 selfish healers. Meanwhile SCH could've gotten AF spender that can enhance another's performance.

Not once I've mentioned ED being a wonderful button, it's more like a band-aid than anything. But if I have to pick between sitting with unused/unneeded stocks to the point I need to overwrite them just to keep Aetherflow on cooldown, I will pick ED as a spender.

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

Since when do you need ED to keep up on MP? You still quoting ShB skills? You need Aetherflow to keep up on MP and while I dont agree this is the way it should be implemented you could just use Aetherflow on CD separate from ED.

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I'm aware, but why would you AF if you haven't used all of your stacks yet? That just feels bad and its unintuitive. So even though you don't recover MP directly by ED's use, you use ED anyway to burn extra resources before AF cause that's the design of the job (unless you like being unoptimal or just enjoy overhealing). So effectively it's a recovery tool, in my opinion.

Keep them separate, sure. I think then you just reintroduce other issues like having nothing to spend AF on besides overhealing, which isn't good design in my opinion. There's a reason people begged for it back in Shb.

Sacrificing healing kit to get damage will always be dumb to me because just like the AST cards people need to understand that people will almost always choose damage over everything else, meaning that the majority of schs will be without aetherflow at moments of the fight especially at the opener making at least 3-4 skills in their kit borderline useless in the opener without dissipation.

I'm working on a writeup with my buddy who's a SCH main but the tl;dr is:

-Energy Drain off of AF but weavable, that way it's part of a burst opener without sacrificing its healing kit for it.
-If not fully off of AF, make AF give you 3 "stacks" of ED to use whenever that way you still have the ability to use it during burst windows.
-Seraph is based on Fey Gauge in order to make it useable more often for burst heals/based on healer performance
-Remove Consolation from Fairy entirely but make Succor/Adlo instant in "Seraph Mode"
-Make Fey Skills in Seraph mode buffed in terms mitigation instead of reskinned buttons that do nothing different.
-Make Fairy like SMN in that it's basically a minion, while making it targetable like it used to be a la kardia. It would still have "passive regen" meaning it wouldn't require the SCH to do damage or anything to heal, like an infinite regen. This gives the SCH more dedicated control over the battlefield as well as fixes the lag/latency issues with fairy because frankly it's a joke after seeing the changes to SMN. It also keeps the identity of the Fairy being a passive healer without SCH commanding it keeping the "edge" over SGE in that regard.
-Give AF a single Taurochole equivalent but make it a shield only so that you can get a free barrier off of AF to keep from staying capped all the time while still getting use out of it. There's no situation where free barriers won't be useful to let you keep focusing on DPS and because AF is instant you could weave it (Unless I forgot and Indom and stuff is on GCD, been a hot second since I did endgame SCH)

The main issues with SCH imo are that every other healer has far better "passive" mitigation and healing. Whereas the SCH has to completely stop everything to cast adlo/succor, including weaving gcds like recitation/et/dt in order for them to be fully utilized.

Before SMN/SGE came out I didn't know how they could possibly change SCH but now with both there's plenty they can do. The problem I see right now is our "dedicated barrier healer" Has literally no barriers outside of GCD, whereas SGE keeps up constant mitigation on the party through weavable skills.

If we can put some shields on aetherflow to make it not busted but burstable, or do something like add shields to the AF skills during Seraph or something, I think it will help a lot.

The class is by no means underpowered, it just kinda feels "jank" and outdated when looking at what AST and SGE can do inbetween its GCDs imo.

The way I would like to see them continue the identity of the healers is:
1. WHM - Pure Big Heals
2. SCH - Barrier/Shields
3. SGE - Mitigation/Upkeep
4. AST - Timed Heals/Delayed Heals

I think keeping with that we can continue to flesh out the identities without making them garbage.

EDIT: In terms of Addersgall I'm always keeping at the very least Kerachole up so I don't usually have a problem with overcapping but due to getting mp back if I'm capped AND have Rizo up I just use a druochole here and there to get free mp. Who cares about overheals lol. It means nothing.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

The main issues with SCH imo are that every other healer has far better "passive" mitigation and healing. Whereas the SCH has to completely stop everything to cast adlo/succor, including weaving gcds like recitation/et/dt in order for them to be fully utilized.

The problem I see right now is our "dedicated barrier healer" Has literally no barriers outside of GCD, whereas SGE keeps up constant mitigation on the party through weavable skills.

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This is just... not remotely true. SCH has roughly the same amount of mitigation and only somewhat worse passive healing than SGE (mostly due to Physis II's healing buff), much better mitigation and somewhat better passive healing than AST (assuming by "passive" we just mean HoTs and not all ogcds), and much better mitigation and passive healing than WHM.

SGE's only ogcd barriers are Hama/Panhama, with SCH getting Seraph and two charges of Consolation instead. You almost never need to dip into gcd heals unless things have somehow gone terribly wrong.

I also don't really understand why you're bringing up Fairy jank when almost all of those problems are now gone aside from a few issues when double weaving certain skills.

Edit: What is true, is that a more significant part of scholar's toolkit is dedicated to augmenting gcd spells, which makes them irrelevant most of the time. SGE just has Pepsis and Zoe, the later of which which is can also be used with the DPS neutral Pneuma. SCH has Dissipation, Fey Illumination, Emergency Tactics, and Deployment Tactics. I'm okay with the situational nature of the Tactics skills, but the other two feel very unsatisfying atm.

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Originally Posted by AlgernonBlackwood

This is just... not remotely true. SCH has roughly the same amount of mitigation and only somewhat worse passive healing than SGE (mostly due to Physis II's healing buff), much better mitigation and somewhat better passive healing than AST (assuming by "passive" we just mean HoTs and not all ogcds), and much better mitigation and passive healing than WHM.

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While I think two 120s and one 30s mitigation especially when one is stationary and the other is based on the fairy movement/positioning/cast is not as "even", I know I've watched my friend who's mained SCH for years run it and read over the logs to verify the ghosting/skill problems still present with the fairy.

Not only can SGE use its shields on the move but it can reliably weave and position every move and skill as it deals with mechanics based on its own positioning, without extra nonsense of placing fairy, re-positioning fairy, readjusting for fairy in tow.

Having an AF shield that could be DT'd or ET'd would be at least a way to provide more use of spreads and controlling the environment than "hold on time to recite adlo spread"

I'm not even saying that SCH is underpowered, it's plenty powerful, I just don't think its kit is as satisfying at the moment, or as satisfying as it "could be" now that we've seen new SMN.

My genuine feedback for SCH

Split Selene and Eos, at least partially, so that each could be uniquely useful.
Leave Whispering Dawn alone.
Split Fey Covenant and Fey Illumination into separate skills again with each Fairy getting 1 skill.
Change Fairy Blessing into a Heal or Shield, depending on which Fairy is out.
Seraph can remain unchanged with her abilities working as they currently are, although I feel merging Consolation with Seraph over Fey Blessing was a missed opportunity as they could've returned Rouse as a low level version of Seraph and gone that route instead.

Cut ED out of the Aetherflow system entirely but leave it as an oGCD with 2 charges on a 45s CD at 200 potency so as to not negatively impact SCH's DPS.
Have any extra stacks of Aetherflow that would otherwise be lost grant Stacks of Rumination equal to the number of stacks of Aetherflow lost. These Stacks would turn Ruin 2 into Rumination that have the same potency as Broil but also grant 10 Fairy Gauge upon use. This way, overcapping Aetherflow doesn't negatively impact Fairy Gauge accumulation, Ruin 2 stops being just a niche mobility option and you don't have to choose between Damage or Healing with Aetherflow anymore.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

While I think two 120s and one 30s mitigation especially when one is stationary and the other is based on the fairy movement/positioning/cast is not as "even", I know I've watched my friend who's mained SCH for years run it and read over the logs to verify the ghosting/skill problems still present with the fairy.

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SGE: Kerachole (30s cd, costs 1 resource), Holos (120s cd), Taurochole (45s cd, costs 1 resource), SCH: Sacred Soil (30s cd, costs 1 resource), Expedient (120s cd), Protraction (60s cd), Fey Illumination (120s).

Kerachole is objectively better than SS in every scenario, Fey Illumination's mitigation is crap, and Protection isn't technically a mitigation even though it functions like one, but the point stands that they two are very close in term of mitigation potential. Also, only Fey Illumination is based on the fairy's position. I've personally never seen the fairy ghost after running dozens of dungeons, so I can't really comment on that. I'll just say that the general consensus I've seen on most places is that Summon Seraph -> Consolation is the only real issue now due to the way it switches out the buttons.

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Not only can SGE use its shields on the move but it can reliably weave and position every move and skill as it deals with mechanics based on its own positioning, without extra nonsense of placing fairy, re-positioning fairy, readjusting for fairy in tow.

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Having some of your healing tied to the fairy is a trade-off that is advantageous in some ways and disadvantageous in others. I think they largely even out, at the absolute worst. I'd prefer for the different healers to have unique strengths and weaknesses as opposed to further hominization.

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I'm not even saying that SCH is underpowered, it's plenty powerful, I just don't think its kit is as satisfying at the moment, or as satisfying as it "could be" now that we've seen new SMN.

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SMN is anything but satisfying to many players right now, including many who formerly loved the job.

Heres an idea : change/replace ED with a "pseudo eukrasia" : next broil/adlo/succcor is instant with a +100 potency (or +~34% whatever is easier for the dev).

I don't think it's OP :
-same dps potency as currect ED
-Allow movement shielding on SCH to be on par with SGE if needed
-Bit bigger potency but less that hardcast+ogcd. still at the cost of a ressource
-Homogenization bad I guess ?

Also, some unrelated feedback : allow fairy glamour : there are lots of "compatible models" -> anima spirit ; eureka/elpis elementals/famiiars ; pixies ; feo ul
(possibly change "seraph" actions name with "channeled" or something ; with it's base being seraph ability to switch to feo ?)

edit : @Kabzy -> I meant that still as "AF dump". It won't change dps optimzation ; the main point of this idea was so SCH get "more" oportunities to use it's shields since it's supposed to be a barrier healer ; and SGE shielding feels a lot better thanks to the insta cast. This was just a "gameplay feel" idea, not a "fix everything" idea (and "easy to implement" since the mechs already exists)

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Originally Posted by Calysto

Heres an idea : change/replace ED with a "pseudo eukrasia" : next broil/adlo/succcor is instant with a +100 potency (or +~34% whatever is easier for the dev).

I don't think it's OP :
-same dps potency as currect ED
-Allow movement shielding on SCH to be on par with SGE if needed
-Bit bigger potency but less that hardcast+ogcd. still at the cost of a ressource
-Homogenization bad I guess ?

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IDK if this makes sense. Either you're suggesting we still have AF stacks in which case you have the exact same issue of ignoring AF heals to optimise. Or you're saying there are no longer any stacks, which means you'd use the "eukrasia" every single time to do a lot more damage than the current +300 from ED.