Disappointed in one Endwalker Aspect [SPOILERS]

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I don't even feel Meteion was the big bad. She was mostly just a vessel for what we've truly been fighting against-- the suffering and despair that we face in every day life, looking for a glimmer of hope and happiness. She just happened to be a strong enough empath to contain the emotions of all those dead worlds, their fear, hated and sorrow.

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to me ,like a lot of things in ew, shes definitely a grey area where shes both a victim and a villain. though forgiveness isnt off the table. (if i can (sort of) forgive emet, why couldnt i forgive a small birb girl?.... if you think about it elpis meteion must be really tall since emet adjusted our size.)

I've seen people argue that what Venat did was evil, so I don't think it was that safe. The topics were pretty heavy and dark too.

I didn't think she would turn out to be evil in the traditional sense. More like an overprotective parent who made what I consider to be a horrible decision and we're the consequences of that decision. When we finally met face to face, my character definitely wanted to give her a piece of my mind. Recalling what Emet said to Meteion after the dungeon "Who are YOU to decide our fate?" Similarly, who is Venat/Hydaelyn to take away the agency and choice of the ancients?

Either way, everything already happened and now here we are, the products of that choice. Instead of laying everything out in black and white it's been nothing but vague platitudes about not letting the dark win and calling us her children etc. If you want our help to fight for something, at least explain your side of things and why you need us. Don't be vague; we're adults we can handle the truth.

Now that both Hydaelyn and Zodiark are gone maybe we can now actually make our own destiny without anyone trying to sway us to their side of a conflict we never asked to be in when we started this game as adventurers. I know that in my case, my character just wants to do his own thing now and not be tied down. I honestly just want to meet new people without my character automatically going into defense mode just because their a Garlean or leftover Ascian or whatever they are. I want to build relationships based off of my interactions with that individual and not any stereotypes. Let's hope that moving forward we can just have fun and not deal with any complicated plot lines. I never thought I'd say this but I'm starting to appreciate Zenos' character more and more. No complicated motivations, just wants to fight and feel alive. I can get behind that lol.

By sundering the ancients, she is forcing them to live up to thier own ideas about serving the star and then returning to the aetherial sea so that they can be born into new life. Thier civilization was dying already, and the ancients had turned thier back on their role as custodians of the star by wanting to sacrifice its new life to bring back thier own.

Venat is embracing her previous role as Azem, chooses the future of star over her own people. Whether that choice is good or evil is irrelevant because it is ultimately the only way forwards. You can't restore the past, or undo tragedy.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

By sundering the ancients, she is forcing them to live up to thier own ideas about serving the star and then returning to the aetherial sea so that they can be born into new life. Thier civilization was dying already, and the ancients had turned thier back on their role as custodians of the star by wanting to sacrifice its new life to bring back thier own.

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This reminds me of a situation where someone you know or love has fallen into addiction or made choices you don't agree with that's destroying their life/making them sick etc. In the end, that person has to decide to get help. You can't force someone to make a different choice. I don't believe in in taking over someone's body/agency to force them to become clean or choose a different path.

Let me try a different example: I've spoken with people online who are radical environmentalists - they believe we as humans are destroying the planet and that the only way we can make things right is by ending civilization and going back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle. They're the minority in our society as far as how to fix climate change. Let's say they form a small group of supporters and decide that since we are too misguided to stop our ways they are going to force us to become better as humanity by turning off everyone's power and destroying a bunch of technology. Let's say they succeed and the whole world is without power. Millions of people who depend on technology to keep them alive in hospitals end up dying and we end up back in a stone age type of lifestyle. To this small group of supporters, they believe they are doing the right thing and that one day humanity will be better off. Are they the heroes or the villains in this case?

I mean they were quite morally grey with both of the big primals. Zodiark was not really shown as evil, just a puppet that was used by Fandaniel. And Hydaelyn was not tempering us, loved mankind and saw us truly as her children but still made harsh decisions that brought suffering to the people. I really like that outcome.

There is also imo no real hint in the story that goes into the direction of her being evil. Shadowbringer brought us one side of the story but even Yoshida said in an interview that we should wait until we see the other side before we judge. And even the part where some hoped or believed us to be tempered could be argued against by other WoLs going againgst her wishes and Ystholas sight which would have noticed something like that.

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

This reminds me of a situation where someone you know or love has fallen into addiction or made choices you don't agree with that's destroying their life/making them sick etc. In the end, that person has to decide to get help. You can't force someone to make a different choice. I don't believe in in taking over someone's body/agency to force them to become clean or choose a different path.

Let me try a different example: I've spoken with people online who are radical environmentalists - they believe we as humans are destroying the planet and that the only way we can make things right is by ending civilization and going back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle. They're the minority in our society as far as how to fix climate change. Let's say they form a small group of supporters and decide that since we are too misguided to stop our ways they are going to force us to become better as humanity by turning off everyone's power and destroying a bunch of technology. Let's say they succeed and the whole world is without power. Millions of people who depend on technology to keep them alive in hospitals end up dying and we end up back in a stone age type of lifestyle. To this small group of supporters, they believe they are doing the right thing and that one day humanity will be better off. Are they the heroes or the villains in this case?

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theres a problem in the comparison though- the ancients civilization was already over due to the end of days and their current choice was either rebuild and move on or use zodiark in an attempt to get it all back. They chose zodiark twice and venats group chose to move forward. and venat won, letting us beat the threat permanently.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

By sundering the ancients, she is forcing them to live up to thier own ideas about serving the star and then returning to the aetherial sea so that they can be born into new life. Thier civilization was dying already, and the ancients had turned thier back on their role as custodians of the star by wanting to sacrifice its new life to bring back thier own.

Venat is embracing her previous role as Azem, chooses the future of star over her own people. Whether that choice is good or evil is irrelevant because it is ultimately the only way forwards. You can't restore the past, or undo tragedy.

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100% right. Venat made a difficult choice that required her to perform a horrible act, but she did make that choice completely in-keeping with the Ancients' mission statement. And whether or not the choice was morally right or wrong is... definitely a point of debate and discussion, but not one of any more than academic value, because that choice can't be undone or punished.

the anti-sundering people are like spoilt rich kids who got their credit cards cut off by their parents. without the sundering, humanity would not have gone through the trials necessary to understand that suffering is part of life and accept it / rise above it instead of crying to Zodiark like those ancient losers in the post 87 flashback.

sometimes rich parents need to cut off their kids' financial supply to teach them how to go through the struggles of life.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

the anti-sundering people are like spoilt rich kids who got their credit cards cut off by their parents. without the sundering, humanity would not have gone through the trials necessary to understand that suffering is part of life and accept it / rise above it instead of crying to Zodiark like those ancient losers in the post 87 flashback.

sometimes rich parents need to cut off their kids' financial supply to teach them how to go through the struggles of life.

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thats a bit harsh calling them spoiled kids. its just how they interpret the story.