Revelations from 4gamer

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Is there really any mention that a primal *can't* choose to dissolve it's aether themselve?

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Ramuh seemed to need us to fight and defeat him.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Ramuh seemed to need us to fight and defeat him.

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I don't remember exactly Ramuh's arc, from what I recall it wanted to test us. The Striking Tree trial starts with Ramuh saying "Thou art Brave, Bringer of Light. Yet bravery alone shall not convince me of the worth!"

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Actually, I think the Narrator is Nashu. Remember, she's incredibly scatterbrained and the ONLY character to constantly break out of the "credits" for a Hildebrand episode and talk to the player. Something that probably hints to her being incredibly eccentric. If you look at it like that, then a lot of the over the top stuff is unlikely, but the base of it is possible.

Examples, Godbert throwing Hildibrand up to get the ring but missing completely and being thrown out of the coliseum and landing completely elsewhere in Ul'dah is unlikely. However, him being tossed up, missing the ring, and crashing near the audience is very likely, and out of Nashu's vision so she'd think of the insane scenario. Julyan Manderville curing Hildibrand with bad cooking is unlikely. However, her being a skilled Alchemist, which is a different kind of cooking, and then curing him with the horrible tasting concoction, is completely plausible.

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I truly do love this take, as it enhances the comedy. I still think everything shown is possible in world though, even the "exaggerated" bits.

The Mandervilles are just more folks who are in strength terms in league with someone like the WoL (greater the earlier the expansion). They just don't have the same ambitions, and also have belief sets that would go against them being heroes for the entire world. The ole, rob them of the agency to save themselves sorta deal.

The easiest comparison for a "serious" quest vs. Hildibrand shenanigans in this regard is the Warrior job quests from Stormblood. In Curious Gorge meets his match, he comes into contact with a Xaela woman who is being consumed by the, "Will of Karesh" which is what her tribe knows the Inner Beast as. She hits Roegadyn Marauders so hard with her axe that she knocks them hundreds of yalms into the sky which sees them plummet down into the ocean. This is a canonical job quest, and it makes use of rather similar visuals to Godbert tossing Hildi anywhere!

I imagine if Alexander could have dusted itself, it wouldn't have created such a convoluted time-loop and cat to ensure it all worked properly.

The whole saga might have been:

<Alexander powers up> ..."Nope"... <Alexander powers down>

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Did he said he meant to relinquished his aether?

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Louisoix
As you have no doubt surmised, I did not perish. When the cage built from the essences of the Twelve was destroyed, the sky was filled with a colossal cloud of aether... This drifting energy responded to the prayers of those fighting below─and to my own desperate wish that the dying realm be saved─by infusing me with the power of a primal (in some languages primal-like power). I became the immortal Phoenix, ancient symbol of rebirth. Rising into the sky, I struck Bahamut with all my newfound strength. The blow shattered his earthly form, and a shower of aether rained down upon the land.

Thus began the rejuvenation of Eorzea. Believing the deed done, I relinquished my hold on that staggering energy, desirous that it should be returned to the realm without delay. But I had not reckoned on Bahamut's tenacious will. Even as he teetered upon the cusp of oblivion, the dragon reached out to claim me. Alas, within my fast fading form, enough remained of the Phoenix's energy to offer Bahamut a hold, and he dragged me along in his wake.

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Louisoix
There are records of an art that allowed one to summon the power of a primal from the essence of its demise. And though I am no true primal, all that I have left, I give to you.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I imagine if Alexander could have dusted itself, it wouldn't have created such a convoluted time-loop and cat to ensure it all worked properly.

The whole saga might have been:

<Alexander powers up> ..."Nope"... <Alexander powers down>

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But that discounts that the knowledge gained from Alexander was necessary to prevent the Eighth Umbral Calamity. If Alexander calculated that the Tycoon was needed to create the perfect timeline, self-termination would not have have been a viable option.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

But that discounts that the knowledge gained from Alexander was necessary to prevent the Eighth Umbral Calamity. If Alexander calculated that the Tycoon was needed to create the perfect timeline, self-termination would not have have been a viable option.

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Alexander in general is a giant paradox, and the funniest part is Alexander itself is fully aware of it! That's why it decided to do nothing in the end, and just slightly move things in a necessary direction using a cat avatar.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I imagine if Alexander could have dusted itself, it wouldn't have created such a convoluted time-loop and cat to ensure it all worked properly.

The whole saga might have been:

<Alexander powers up> ..."Nope"... <Alexander powers down>

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Louisoix
As you have no doubt surmised, I did not perish. When the cage built from the essences of the Twelve was destroyed, the sky was filled with a colossal cloud of aether... This drifting energy responded to the prayers of those fighting below─and to my own desperate wish that the dying realm be saved─by infusing me with the power of a primal (in some languages primal-like power). I became the immortal Phoenix, ancient symbol of rebirth. Rising into the sky, I struck Bahamut with all my newfound strength. The blow shattered his earthly form, and a shower of aether rained down upon the land.

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yeah but in the same breath he says "I became the immortal Phoenix". Also, what Louisoix says is really vague: what does he means exactly by "I'm not a true primal"? Maybe he confirms he only borrowed Phoenix's power, maybe he's warning his grandchildren that no one could resummon him with that part of his mortal soul, maybe he means he's something "more" than just a primal; maybe back in ARR, there was some difference between primals/eikons/gods, who knows?

and all that doesn't really matter since even if Louisoix was not a primal it wouldn't answer the question "Is a primal able to dismiss itself"?

There's always the possibility that Louisoix is dismissing himself as a primal because he's still working under the belief that a primal is a real God summoned by its worshippers. It wasn't until Mog, and later Shiva, that this notion was dispelled for us.

Or maybe the primal Phoenix, as part of his "believing their own story" schtick, believes himself to be "Louisoix, having channeled the power of the Twelve to become Phoenix". Kinda like how Tsukuyomi's convoluted schtick is that she believes she's Yotsuyu if Yotsuyu had the power of the goddess Tsukuyomi.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

But that discounts that the knowledge gained from Alexander was necessary to prevent the Eighth Umbral Calamity. If Alexander calculated that the Tycoon was needed to create the perfect timeline, self-termination would not have have been a viable option.

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And that may very well be True (the "real" reason) in the end! It's a great excuse. It's just...it would just be a very recently-written piece of lore, while we're looking for clues in the contemporary context of stories distant past - where the devs heads were at the time. Recall that the dev. team has acknowledged that they had no idea in 3.4 that we'd be going to the First or seeing the Warriors of Darkness again at the time. Kinda hard for the writers of Alexander to consider the implications of the Tycoon not knowing it'd exist, right?

Imho, that's why it's fun to track "intended all along" versus "iNtEnDeD aLL aLoNg".

But it's true. If they decided tomorrow a full primal could fully mist itself and had to come up for excuses why some didn't, that may be part of Alexander's.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Actually, I think the Narrator is Nashu. Remember, she's incredibly scatterbrained and the ONLY character to constantly break out of the "credits" for a Hildebrand episode and talk to the player. Something that probably hints to her being incredibly eccentric. If you look at it like that, then a lot of the over the top stuff is unlikely, but the base of it is possible.

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That's how I see it too. That the events themselves actually happened but what we're seeing is an exaggerated version of them, a la the Wandering Minstrel EXs.