Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I... don't think that's exactly what the game follows, though. "Hard" mode only appears to be merely semantics, because the dungeons (despite being in the same themed area) are completely different, and tuned for the relevant level cap of that expansion.

The word "hard" just appear to exist to diferentiate the title of the dungeon entry - not as to indicate it being challenging over other same level dungeons. Of course, a level 50 Satasha is certainly harder than the level 15 version, but they are just as difficult as, for example Snowcloak, which is another level 50 dungeon but without "hard" in the name.

In short, there is no real "hardmode" for dungeons in FFXIV, and I would certainly welcome such an addition. Maybe they could just brand it "Savage" since the word hard is already claimed for that other reason.

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I have to ask - have you tried pushing into Deep Dungeon or Heaven on High? If so I'd be interested in seeing what you think of it and how that might be improved to match what you're wanting. Because I'd be honest in saying I don't think they're going to go back and adjust existing content for higher difficult caps. That's simply my speculation based off of their development history for this game thus far - they just don't have the capacity to prioritize it - but I don't think they've completely ruled out Deep Dungeon, even though Heaven on High wasn't as well received as Palace of the Dead.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I have to ask - have you tried pushing into Deep Dungeon or Heaven on High? If so I'd be interested in seeing what you think of it and how that might be improved to match what you're wanting. Because I'd be honest in saying I don't think they're going to go back and adjust existing content for higher difficult caps. That's simply my speculation based off of their development history for this game thus far - they just don't have the capacity to prioritize it - but I don't think they've completely ruled out Deep Dungeon, even though Heaven on High wasn't as well received as Palace of the Dead.

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Yep! If we actually had a deep dungeon in ShB, I wouldn't complain as much as the lack of challenging 4-man content for the current level cap.

I'm not really into running PotD or HoH a lot lately because:

a) Done ad nauseum in their current expansions
b) The jobs scale back to levels 60/70... and it happens that my favorite jobs are pretty bland before ShB


Said that, they hinted that EW will have a deep dungeon? That is one of the things that I'm looking forward the most;

Though, I'd love to see different features applied to it - HoH did an improvement to PotD with the Magicites and the odd 'open room' levels, but I'd love to see even more differences in a new EW deep dungeon.

To be fair I love healing Mongo pulls in AV.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

there is no real "hardmode" for dungeons in FFXIV, and I would certainly welcome such an addition. Maybe they could just brand it "Savage" since the word hard is already claimed for that other reason.

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I would advocate for 'hardmode dungeons' to be a thing as long as there isn't a timer, or at least that it's optional - God knows that's one of the points toxicity peaked in WoW

Dungeon instances are part of the story line, so they aren't going to be super-hard. The previous expansion instances will appear to be easy if you've already outleveled and outgeared them. This isn't a single-player game where you can turn on hard-mode and go all out.

Here's a thought-- create an alt and raise it to level 50 and then go do Praetorium in ilevel 55 gear (you know, the gear you got at level 50 for being a good little Warrior of Light in your chosen job) and see if that makes a difference in your perception of just how 'hard' the game really is/was. Then, only equip gear that drops in all of the other instances post 2.0 story line. It's easy to get through at ilevel 130, which is an increase of 236% of the story mode gear required.

Of course your level 80 is going to wipe the floor with any ARR boss. It doesn't take that long because the attention span of a level 80 player is much lower than that of the level 24 player running through Toto-Rak the first time, so they just want it 'done' so they can go back to chatting at the Quicksand. And, of course, if you've been running Mythic dungeons in WoW, the instances here are going to seem kinda tame.

The longer you've played this game, the more jaded about pre-current patch dungeons you're going to be. The longer you've played any MMO, the more jaded you're going to be.

"are becoming" ?
It has been like this since 2.1
(and it's not like they really tried for 2.0 dungeons)

They know that dungeons are easy so they decided to stop trying to make them challenging and focus more on making them fun.

Since they are some of the main content done by casual players for the story, they need to be easy. A mechanic killing you on its own is not something they want to do and it was not an easy decision for the one in Grand Cosmos to kill people.

The corridors are linear because when they weren't linear, such as in Sastasha and other ARR dungeons, people just choose the most efficient route anyway.

The trash in Shadowbringers dungeons are not meaningless because they do powerful casts that can be interrupted or stunned by the tank, so if you do a big pull you can help the healer a lot by interrupting the burst damage. This is made challenging by the fact there are so many mobs and you have to pick out the correct ones. A healer could try to heal through it and a good healer probably will but it makes it harder or more work if the tank isn't doing all these things.

If they're so keen on dumbing down dungeons to the extent they've been doing, I wish they would at least add challenging 4-man content regularly as well. Kit usage between dungeons and trials/raids is so different and I'd like to do more than Holy spam and Benediction during pulls.

(Don't mention DDs, you need either 5hrs+ or a static if you want to reach the more challenging floors, and we didn't get any this expac anyways).

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Would like some mechanics where the 4 players are split up to do a small puzzle or something and can only get to the boss when all 4 players do what's needed. Or have some sneak off during a boss fight to trigger something/ect.

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CLL and Dalriada were a fresh experience. Having to communicate between groups is what MMOs should incentivize. I want that in 4-man dungeons. I know people will think that is too much social stress but man up dude, if saying "safe spots: LR" stresses you out so much you get a panic attack you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO. Just go play with trusts if you can't handle talking to internet strangers.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Some of the most "non linear" dungeons with the most varied boss mechanics in the game are the most hated: Thousand Maws, Aurum Vale.


I have my doubts that the current population wants more of that.

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Thousand Maws and Aurum Vale were not what I considered great design though. Aurum Vale was also not really non-linear. If there was a random Tonberry wandering and blocking off paths in Thousand Maws you would see people taking different paths each time.