RMT or Bots? In Excalibur

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Originally Posted by viion

If the card was fake, it would fail purchase, thus you wouldnt get on, even if you got on, the next billing cycle would fail.

Many of the RMT have been around since launch, or months lol. I recognize many, they get added to my site a lot and people like to "Track them" using my site. I try to delete as much as pos as it messes up legit statistics (rmt only ones to hit highest leves complete lol).

So doubtful, SE just sees the money.

As for a PC that runs the game with 10 accounts, its easy, you just go in first person and face the ground, i dualbox and having 1 face ground frees up all FPS for other and I can max out 60. I've logged onto 3-4 accounts before doing this, not hard lol.

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Fraud doesn't work that way.

The person using 'fake' cards are actually using stolen cards from other people (It happens waaay more than you think.)

The subscriptions are made as per normal, but then when people find out that their card is being used, they demand a backpay, which forces SE to pay back the money plus the transaction fee.

So no, RMT actually cost SE money in the long haul. To think otherwise is to be unaware about how credit transactions and credit fraud really work.

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Originally Posted by NationOfZealots

Just goes to show that SE are capitalist draconians, the RMT mob I reported still there u_u; I would compare this very much to corrupt governments. Is SE based in Burma? LOL FFS

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You have to look at this from a business perspective: If they've gotten this far, the fraud has already taken place. Banning them now does nothing as they'll just cycle in the next set immediately - again, doing this costs the RMT nothing as they just cycle through a back log of stolen credit cards. Not to mention, RMT rarely carry the money on the obvious accounts. Usually it's a stolen account or set of accounts with normal names kept hidden for the most part.

The best way to hit these guys is the same way that was done in FFXI - hit them in the wallets. Draw out the RMT to gather the money, trace the money to the bank, ban the account that's hoarding the money as well as the farming accounts - costing the farmers both time and money in the process.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Fraud doesn't work that way.

The person using 'fake' cards are actually using stolen cards from other people (It happens waaay more than you think.)

The subscriptions are made as per normal, but then when people find out that their card is being used, they demand a backpay, which forces SE to pay back the money plus the transaction fee.

So no, RMT actually cost SE money in the long haul. To think otherwise is to be unaware about how credit transactions and credit fraud really work.

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But ummmm once their account has been found out to using stolen cards, wouldnt said account be suspended? Which isnt the case, many of these RMT have been around for months, over a year some of them lol

So no, I dont believe they all use Stolen Cards, because its doubtful they can get away with stolen cards for months/year long.

One - you assume all cards that are stolen are instantly reported. Some take weeks, months, even years to be discovered.

Two - You also assume the charge-back notification and and return process is the same as a refund - it's not. There's a mountain of legal red tape to go through, especially across national lines. It's made even more difficult considering China has terrible policies regarding credit card fraud. Guess where the majority of RMT comes from?

Three - You're making massive assumptions of Square Enix when they have already explained to us in no uncertain terms the policy regarding RMT and how they counter it. This was detailed, at length when Square Enix's FFXI team introduced the "Special Task Force" (Originally called the Special Task Force Unit before the acronym was discovered.) Square Enix, in fact, has been one of the frontrunners in trying to fight RMT, so claiming they're money grubbing capitalists who simply wait and profit off of RMT subscriptions is quite far from the truth.

You're welcome to your own beliefs, however. Just realize that both facts and history disagree with you.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

One - you assume all cards that are stolen are instantly reported. Some take weeks, months, even years to be discovered.

Two - You also assume the charge-back notification and and return process is the same as a refund - it's not. There's a mountain of legal red tape to go through, especially across national lines. It's made even more difficult considering China has terrible policies regarding credit card fraud. Guess where the majority of RMT comes from?

Three - You're making massive assumptions of Square Enix when they have already explained to us in no uncertain terms the policy regarding RMT and how they counter it. This was detailed, at length when Square Enix's FFXI team introduced the "Special Task Force" (Originally called the Special Task Force Unit before the acronym was discovered.) Square Enix, in fact, has been one of the frontrunners in trying to fight RMT, so claiming they're money grubbing capitalists who simply wait and profit off of RMT subscriptions is quite far from the truth.

You're welcome to your own beliefs, however. Just realize that both facts and history disagree with you.

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I will believe it when I see them gone =), If they were costing so much money, I'd doubt they'd still be here, on those debt free accounts. History does not disagree with me when history shows the RMT are still there now, they will be tomorrow and they will be there months from now. SE is not banning for a reason, which to me is most likely they getting money, they wouldn't say "oh look at all these accounts that are costing us money, and are clearly RMT-related, but lets not ban them!".

I will believe you, when they're gone, until then, it just proves SE does not care for them right now. I wouldnt care about people paying me thousands a month XD.

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Originally Posted by Jhanaka

Hi Guys!

Thanks for letting us know about the RMT army on your server. =/

I'll go ahead and have one of my GMs forward the names to our Special Task Force so they can do a thorough investigation. I'll go ahead and leave this thread open, but we ask that you either submit the names of suspected RMT customers either in game via the /helpdesk system or through our Email Support at our Support Center . If you use the /helpdesk feature, the GMs will send you a reply and submit the names for you.

We thank you for your continued support in keeping the community fun for everyone.

-Senior Game Master Jhanaka

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I am sure we would love to type all the names in...but....I hope the GMs realize just HOW MANY there are?
Just making a point.

Easiest to just take a screenshot from the customer POV.

I sent a report in-game, but here are more. This time is other races, with more keyboard smashing names at the same camp as before (Camp Bloodshore). This screenshot was just taken at 9:20pm EST, so they've been doing this all day.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...FXIVBots-1.png

Thanks, Hyrist. I didn't want to get into the details, but yeah that pretty much sums up what I meant.

I did also found those several times during my ventures @ La Noscea. A bit disturbing seeing a bunch of low lvl Lalas & Miqs. ;D

If they ban the 'throwaway' accounts, RMT will simply make more, thus using even MORE stolen credit cards to do it. This means that there is more potential that SE will encounter 'disputes' to their subscription fees. The RMT get to leech off of the bandwidth and service of SE for free and the cardholder who eventually realizes their card has been stolen will 'dispute' the charge to their credit card company or bank. This institution will refund the money and then challenge SE. SE will be forced to refund this money.

Banning these accounts invites even more of these costly 'disputes'. If SE knows that the RMT will keep coming back with an endless amount of stolen credit cards (many of which will be disputed when the real cardholder finds out they are being charged), there is no reason to ban the throwaway accounts. In fact, it WILL cost them more money and resources trying to keep up with it when they obviously know they can't.

The best way to combat this is to find the money-holders, as another person said. They also need to figure out how the system itself is working, and shut that down. Banning the throwaway accounts is a waste of time and resources. I believe more measures will eventually be put in place that make this type of RMT harder to do, and a much bigger crackdown on the 'money-holder' mules. If they enhanced their ability to track the way money travels, the money-holding mules would be incredibly obvious.

Also, it might be a point:
Without proof of breach of terms of service, SE would be in violation of their own terms should they ban/stop the account. Although we can all suspect, there is no proof.

Also, I think SE makes us jump through hoops with paying by credit card as a way of them being 'insured' against credit card fraud. I think they will claim the money from insurance?