Incorrect. Though it be not in cutscene, we see several starshowers and meteorfalls within combat in FFXIV between the beginning of the game and 5.2, that take place within canonical combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsidianFire
Kaiser Behemoth's Ecliptic Meteor in LoTA.
Syrcus Tower Xande fight when he employs the casting of multiple meteors.
Turn 9 of Binding Coil of Bahamut, when Nael deus Darnus drops comets.
Tioman's use of meteors and comets through the fight in Sohm Al.
The meteor spell cast during Thordan's Knights of the Round phase.
Sophia using meteors to tip her scales.
Zurvan's meteors during Broken Seal.
Ozma's meteors in Weeping City.
The second boss in Bardam's Mettle, "Be not afraid of falling stars."
Simulacra of Halicarnassus teleporting us to a desert wherein a "starry gift" moves to crash down on the desert.
Simulacra of Exdeath casting Meteor on us in Omega 4.
And then the entire simulated existence of the end days of Amaurot in the dungeon Amaurot during 5.0.
So like, yeah, we've seen things similar to the starshower quite a lot during our heroic shenanigans.
The echo and Hydaelyn's contact
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09-04-2020, 02:45 PMVyrerus
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09-04-2020, 04:50 PMKeseyZodiark is very much alive, but is sealed in the moon. As this is a plot point from ARR, if the 8th calamity/rejoining takes place that will give Zodiark enough power to slip his bonds. And Hydaelyn (since Heavensward, when she speaks to you after Anti-tower) does not have the power to stop him again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloran
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09-04-2020, 05:01 PMIscahNo, there is not and has never been a plot point that the eighth rejoining would give Zodiark enough power to break free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesey
That was speculation based on an out-of-game statement during promotion for Shadowbringers about the "eighth and final" Calamity.
The idea of it being a tipping point was our best guess at that time as to why the eighth might be the last.
In hindsight it is almost certainly referring to the alternate timeline where, depending on how you interpret it, either our time-altering escapades brought that world to an end entirely, or - on the assumption that the timeline continues to exist - the world may even be too ruined for even the Ascians to salvage. -
09-04-2020, 05:20 PMKeseyA lot to unpack here, but to start with tempering: We are not 100% sure if we were tempered by Hydaelyn in the sense that the blessing of light is tempering that allows freedom of thought. The Echo and the Blessing seem to be two different powers and some would argue that it's the blessing that prevents the tempering because it is a tempering from another primal. If you refer back to the cutscene before we face Ifrit, his followers are upset that we can't be tempered because we've been tempered by some other primal, but Ifrit corrects them and says its the blessing. I would assume we'll get a straight answer about this before the end of 6.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsidianFire
Regarding the Azem flashbacks/echos, this is probably a going to be a thing, but I don't think it will be flashbacks to us just adventuring. We do this now, literally playing the job of Azem every time we play the game, so to flashback to Azem has to serve the double function of filling in missing history. My personal theory is we've been reincarnated before every calamity and have been a participant in said events. Obviously we've failed 7 times but may have done damage control at best. Most likely we won't see two of the time lines because we've already seen them--specifically Tenzen during the 4 lords quest where our soul is recognized to be his and then again during Return to Ivalice with ff14 original Ramza where we are recognized as him too; also this may or may not be stretch but Warring Triad also recognizes you as a citizen of the Allagan empire during the war with Mercyadia. We also know that our characters are all implied to have been at the battle of Carteneau only to have been trust forward in time by Louisoix before he becomes Phoenix (with legacy players getting remember flair from returning characters from 1.0). I think it's important that we look at what has happened before these calamities because just wining the fight doesn't stop the calamity from coming to pass and we are at crunch time because the 8th calamity will free Zodiark. -
09-04-2020, 06:29 PMVeloranWhat's the source on this? Because so far as I know, he's very very dead, and everything the Ascians have done is (in part) to resurrect him.Quote:
Zoidark isn't dead. He's still alive.
Sorry there, meant to say "tempering", not sundering. Once someone dies, their tempering is undone - People aren't born pre-tempered to Primals that may have tempered a previous incarnation of them in the past.Quote:
Sundering definetly still works after death.
Basically, because the Sundered Ascians are just that, sundered shards of their former selves, that means they, unlike the three Unsundered, did not survive the Sundering. Meaning they should not retain the tempering resulting from Zodiark's summoning. And given that Zodiark himself was Sundered, is stated to be dead, and his remains are bound away within the moon, it is extremely unlikely that he has either the power or agency to temper anyone anymore.
Evidently the Sundered were previously reigned in by the Unsundered, which is why Fandaniel is now free to do whatever the hell he wants.Quote:
I can't see Zoidark (or the Unsundered Ascians) just letting someone have the power that an Ascian does and not wind up Tempered by Zodiark. The last thing they need is some non-dying individual to take Hydaelyn's side and start wrecking the Ascians plans that way.
That's not exactly what the situation was.Quote:
I can't see them just letting Zodiark go around demanding aether via killing people.
Whenever his return is referenced, it's always in the context of "resurrecting" him.Quote:
Zodiark is very much alive, but is sealed in the moon. As this is a plot point from ARR, if the 8th calamity/rejoining takes place that will give Zodiark enough power to slip his bonds. And Hydaelyn (since Heavensward, when she speaks to you after Anti-tower) does not have the power to stop him again.
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09-04-2020, 07:00 PMKeseyAs opposed to "summoning" him. If he was dead he would need to be summoned. But he isn't dead, just needs more of the shards and the source rejoined to have the power break out of the moon. Which is very much a "resurrection" and not a "summoning".Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloran
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09-04-2020, 07:19 PMVeloranWhen a Primal is killed, their essence is actually cast back to the aetherial sea, from which they can be summoned once more. This is why the Allagans favored capturing Primals over killing them, and why multiple instances of the same Primal can't be summoned at the same time.Quote:
As opposed to "summoning" him. If he was dead he would need to be summoned. But he isn't dead, just needs more of the shards and the source rejoined to have the power break out of the moon. Which is very much a "resurrection" and not a "summoning".
Hydaelyn not only killed and sundered Zodiark, she also bound the remains of his essence in the moon so he couldn't return to the Lifestream from which he may have been resummoned. Basically, Zodiark is the most truly dead anything in this setting can possibly be, which is why the Ascians constantly describe his return as a resurrection, because he's utterly broken and out of commission until they can rejoin the shards. -
09-04-2020, 08:24 PMIscahDo you have a quote for that? Especially the killing part?Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloran
My understanding is that Zodiark was sundered and bound, but not killed.
The first lorebook describes (via the in-universe framing of research by the Scions and the Sons of Baldesion, so their understanding at the time) that because Darkness has grown out of balance, Hydaelyn "passed judgement that Darkness should be physically excised from the planet, and cast the will of Darkness - Zodiark - into space where it became the moon".
It also describes the Ascians' purpose as being to "regather the aether distributed amongst the thirteen mirrored planes [...] where it can be used to wake the exiled Zodiark and restore Him to his rightful place back within Hydaelyn".
So no, I don't think He's dead. -
09-04-2020, 08:30 PMRannie
Even during Word of Mother minfillia states as the voice of Hydaelyn that she split zodiark across the shards and sealed him into the moon. There was no specific mention of her killing him.
Also when Emet Selch demonstrates Hydaelyns power, which he even says she was created to enervate him, it show us that it would split the person in half of EVERYTHING they have using Ryne as the example. -
09-04-2020, 10:08 PMLineageRazorOne thing to remember about Hydaelyn (and Zodiark, for that matter) that sets her apart from other Primals, is that she explicitly has a non-Primal being acting as her heart. Venat, in the case of Hydaelyn. We cannot assume that she's a mindless sundering machine, programmed to divide the world and keep it divided for as long as she has the power to do so. She could very well have enough agency to decide that enough has been done, and that no further action is required on her part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesey
One could take the stance that it's too great a risk to take. We have a being who could potentially destroy us all, and she's temporarily(?) weakened. We must kill her, before she regains her power! Never mind that she could well be a gentle, benevolent being who means us no harm - she's too powerful and therefore must die! I doubt that the game will ever take us down that path, as it's pretty much the farthest thing from heroism, and if the Warrior of Light has any grey in her morality, it's a light shade at best. If we do end Hydaelyn's life, it won't be because of paranoid fear, but because Hydaelyn herself wishes it.
On the topic of Primals with hearts, I have to wonder if Elidibus is still functioning as Zodiark's heart. The Elidibus we slew was explicitly a Primal, and Primals are NOT the individual they were originally patterned after (Primal Bahamut is nothing like original Bahamut, original Garuda was an Allagan general rather than an insane bird-woman, and so on). I don't know if the story meant to imply that the Primal-ization of Elidibus explicitly removed Zodiark's heart and wrapped it up in Primal skin (similar to Ysayle's transformation into Shiva), or if the Primal Elidibus is an independent being. I suspect that Primal Elidibus is intended to be Zodiark's removed heart, as that would leave a convenient vacancy for Zenos to move into, but I still wonder...