A (Probably Terrible) Idea to Help SCH class identity

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

At the very minimum
SCH: Add a new spell, called Vitriol (to fit with SCH's spell names having conversational double-meanings)
Vitriol would be an instant-cast targetted AoE (think BLM freeze) that deals 350p over 24s. It would require a Dark Humour stack to be cast.
Dark Humour would be accumulated by consuming Aetherflow aside from Energy Drain (so every healing AF, but no recitation). Casting Aetherflow would remove existing stacks of Dark Humour.
Dark Humour would overwrite the spent AF on the gauge, as shown in this sloppy mockup:
https://i.imgur.com/of3Lcu7.png

The purpose is to reward the cast of an AF heal with a damaging effect that cannot be spammed. You're be encouraged to chain Dark Humour stacks via Vitriol + AF Heal, while still needing to dump excess aetherflow with Energy Drain (since Vitriol is only once per 24s). Biolysis + Energy Drain is still a DPS gain though.

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Cool idea, but the reward is too high given the example potency.

Let's take a window of 2 minutes (6 Aetherflow) as an example, because it aligns well with everything. And three scenarios:

1) All ED
You'd get a total of 6x150 = 900 potency. This requires that you dedicate every single swiftcast to creating a weave window for the EDs you can't weave with Biolysis.

2) Mixed
4x ED + 2x dot = 4x150 + 2x70 = 740 potency. You weave 4 ED with Biolysis and you use 2 Aetherflow heals.

3) All dot
1x ED + 5x dot = 1x150 + 5x70 = 500 potency. You weave 1 ED at some point and you use 5 Aetherflow heals.

Between 2 and 3 you have different combinations on the number of EDs and number of dots. That is, you lose 80 potency, but you gain mobility + an Aetherflow heal + a double weave window.

I'd put it at 280 potency as a maximum, in order to preserve the 150 potency opportunity cost on Aetherflow heals. Maybe less considering the mobility + double weave window.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Cool idea, but the reward is too high given the example potency. ... I'd put it at 280 potency as a maximum, in order to preserve the 150 potency opportunity cost on Aetherflow heals. Maybe less considering the mobility + double weave window.

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The entire point of Vitriol was to remove Energy Drain's opportunity cost, allowing SCH access to half of its healing kit without giving up a sizable amount of potency. The potency is not up for debate.
The ability to double-weave with it is also necessary, since SCH has more weaving with fewer weave slots than WHM. White Mage. White-lowest CPM job-mage. SCH needs this. This or Energy Drain becoming a GCD.

If there's anything that I could be persuaded to nerf about Vitriol, it would be the the availability of use - the DoT's duration.
I went with 24s because that's what Miasma 1 was. It was more of a 'fond nostalgia' choice than a decision founded upon balance. I assumed that the 80 potency loss for using Vitriol over Bio/Swift + ED would be enough de-incentivising overfrequent usage, or the fact that efficient usage wouldn't be on cooldown but rather saved for movement would be a second limiting factor.
But if you're so sure that it needs nerfing, then it's availability that needs looking at, not the core SCH issues that it fixes.

If the DoT duration was increased to something like 42s or 45s, the availability of aetherflow heal slots would be decreased as well. It'd mean that people can't just spam out Soil every 30s, or if they do use it on cooldown they'd lose future Aetherflow heals or have to bite a lost Vitriol in the Aetherflow reset.

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

This means that it is now equivelant to the 3 glares lost to cast it, and WHM players can rejoyce.
Assize changed to an instant-cast 1.5s GCD (think MCH Heat Blast) with 2 charges.

The Assize change would pack even more unique traits into the skill, partly because I think it would be hilarious, partly because I think that giving WHM more mini-movement&on-demand weaving tools would help them, but not take away from it being the least mobile healer. Also the charges mean that you can save assize for damage, instead of saving damage for assize - I'd be easily persuaded against the charges though, if people feel like assize's static-ness is core to the class.

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I agree with this, making Assize on the GCD at a shorter GCD with 2 charges would be easier for them to do instead of adding a DPS lily option. It would encourage Assize usage instead of holding it like some people do. I feel that this would give WHM the necessary weaving space for movement and weaving along with the Misery change.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Just roll with it and dump more responsibility on them; it's fine. ASTs were made for it. We appreciate low HP bars so our fully cooked Star chan can feel useful. Let the Broil spam intensify! The only time I get out healed on AST is when the my co healer is a healbot who immediately heals everyone to full, going so far as to precast heals during the aoe cast.
My static co healer is trying to experiment with how low he can go without forcing me to hardcast. So far he is at a 6 healing parse on Ramuh with the majority of it coming from Assize.
"Do you need me to heal?"
"Nah. ED in 12 seconds, he'll just have to survive until then"
Seeing how low you can go is a fun little mini game

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Sometimes I feel like that with my cohealer as well. I feel bad a lot of the time just Glare spamming but he always manages to keep up along with healing. Honestly I think that just comes to prove that healer kits have so little synergy between the two so they either give AST or SCH many answers to thing so WHM who lacks many oGCDs. The only real interactions besides timing each other's CDs is Asylum's boost to healing actions and SCH's boost to healing spells. So they need to frontload of them with things that can answer all situations.

There's a reason why ASTs have an easier time with solo healing minus the MP issues, they have everything: buffs, many oGCDs and ability to provide both shields and regens at once every two minutes.

AST isn't THAT OP in reality, it just shows how bad the other healers need help, both kit and gameplay. Despite the boring card changes, AST is the busiest with the cards to manage and therefore the only healer with less of braindead gameplay.

I stopped reading at "burst dps healer". Dps and healing are different roles. Stop watching fflogs so much they mess with your brains. All healer are capable of doing anything in any combination and they are nicely balanced. If u care that much about the 200-300 dps difference then u might want to play a dps

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Originally Posted by Kazukiyashuo

I stopped reading at "burst dps healer". Dps and healing are different roles.

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Excellent. You've healed everyone. They're at full HP. No damage is going out for the next 25 seconds. What do you do?

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Excellent. You've healed everyone. They're at full HP. No damage is going out for the next 25 seconds. What do you do?

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Im using my flare/broil/malefic and having fun with . Not gonna cry cause i lost 2 dot skills to keep me even more busy, unless u think healers ever had more in their dps kit , which is false thoughts

If you want braindead gameplay, there's classes for that. I'd much rather healer gameplay feel rewarding in the part of the content that doesn't have to do with heal checks. Even if they do give us additional DPS tools, you can spam GLARE/Broil/Malefic to your hearts content.

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Originally Posted by Kazukiyashuo

Stop watching fflogs so much they mess with your brains
Im using my flare/broil/malefic and having fun with . Not gonna cry cause i lost 2 dot skills to keep me even more busy, unless u think healers ever had more in their dps kit , which is false thoughts

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So you're saying that you find healers hard enough already. That, instead of trying to get better with the potential of a higher skill ceiling, you'd rather 'just have fun' despite your fun being different, detrimental even, to other peoples'?

FFLogs is a tool that you can use to look back at your gameplay and figure out how to improve (oh I could have used more Celestial Intersections! or whoa I missed 8 Earthly Stars?!). It doesn't 'mess with your brains' so much as enable you to think.

And for your last point... Everyone had more in their DPS kit. Cleric stance put more forethought into everyone's healing and damaging, all 3 jobs had at least 2 running DoT effects with a 3rd dedicated to weaving (SCH had 5 DoTs). We had fewer oGCD healing tools, so GCD healing was more common. The only false thoughts here are yours, my dude.

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

So you're saying that you find healers hard enough already. That, instead of trying to get better with the potential of a higher skill ceiling, you'd rather 'just have fun' despite your fun being different, detrimental even, to other peoples'?

FFLogs is a tool that you can use to look back at your gameplay and figure out how to improve (oh I could have used more Celestial Intersections! or whoa I missed 8 Earthly Stars?!). It doesn't 'mess with your brains' so much as enable you to think.

And for your last point... Everyone had more in their DPS kit. Cleric stance put more forethought into everyone's healing and damaging, all 3 jobs had at least 2 running DoT effects with a 3rd dedicated to weaving (SCH had 5 DoTs). We had fewer oGCD healing tools, so GCD healing was more common. The only false thoughts here are yours, my dude.

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Honestly they just seems like a troll as they mentioned in another thread something also negative. Or maybe one of people who are contrarians for the sake of arguing. If they're truly content with how healers are, then they wouldn't be looking here in the first place or even comment.

They were searching for reactions, just ignore them.

Additional rework ideas for some SCH skills:

Summon Eos/Selene: Remove these abilities and tie Lily to our job stone so that when we choose SCH or are revived from death our Faerie is instantly called with us. Replace Summon Eos/Selene with a "Conversion" type skill that would change Lily from one form to the other, also changing some of her abilities. (Essentially, turn the faeries into different "stances.")

Emergency Tactics: Rework into a 15y radius oGCD that consumes Galvanize, Catalyze, and Seraph Veil and converts them into health. This would allow SCH to keep a lot of their shield healer identity and give them some potential burst healing when shields aren't necessary.

Dissipation/Summon Seraph: I like the idea of combining these skills. Instead of just eating your Faerie and locking you out of your faerie skills, you replace her with Seraph and gain some Aether stacks. Could also be combined with my original idea in the OP and turned into the "burst damage" window for SCH, or maybe just a Dreadwyrm Trance/Lightspeed style mobility tool.

Whispering Dawn/Fey Illumination: Keep the base abilities, but also give them a bonus depending on whether Eos, Selene, or Seraph is out. Eos Whispering Dawn grants a burst of healing and then a regen, Selene applies a regen and debuffs enemies in range, Seraph gives the regen plus damage mitigation. Fey Illumination for keeps the 5% magic damage mitigation, but Eos keeps the extra heals, Selene gets extra shields, and Seraph applies both.

Fey Union/Aetherpact/Faerie Gauge: Maybe more than any other skill in our kit, these need a big rework to feel impactful. Following my previous suggestions Eos and Selene would apply different effects based on which "stance" you're in, but I'm at a loss as to how to differentiate them. Seraph should be able to use a version of these skills as well, but perhaps her version of Aetherpact would be instant instead of channeled so she's not animation locked during her summon time. A DPS ability tied to Faerie Gauge would also feel much better.

Just some ideas I had while playing the other day.