Void Mage - New Job Idea

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Channels, especially those with a cooldown, are notoriously frustrating in a game where windows of opportunity often coincide with random forced movement.

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With how scripted this game is though it shouldn't be a problem once you learn the fights I would think. The only one I see being potentially problematic is Deep Freeze so you just have to find an opening once a minute and there's Veil if you get targeted. Plus if you do have to move you can still get part of the effect so it's not a total loss like a cast would be. As for Evil Mist you can move and re-channel no problem or just multi-dot and spam Paroxysm from afar if you really need to.

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My primary suggestions would be

1. Changing the nature of the filler. The GCD is 2.5 and Server ticks are 3.0. I can see this being a little off kilter. Nothing wrong with Shadowbolt.
2. The DoT reduction from the filler can be repurposed into a separate short CD ability (30-45s) that has a similar function, with a more pronounced effect as it's no longer on not-shadowbolt.
3. The Demonform timer seems unnecessarily short and likely a product of having the comparison from WoW. 10 seconds is an extremely small window of capitalization in FF14. 20-30s is more in line with FF14's pacing, and adjust auracite gain and Summon length accordingly.

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1. They are mismatched but you never really notice dot ticks happening, if it is a problem the cast time could be changed to 1.5 or 3s but spell speed could always mess it up. Nothing wrong with Shadowbolt, it's just boring. Umm with that change the chance for the dots' additional effects could be increased slightly and the base dmg of either Degenerate or the dots increased so yeah that could work but I don't see the need. Would make balancing easier I guess.

2. Hrmm less consistency but more burst potential, that'd require more forethought, might not feel good refreshing dots then using that then having to refresh them again shortly after and if their extra effects procced that's a lot of stuff to deal with at once, would all of that be annoying or fun for a short cd? Another thing I'd like to play test. ><

3. It lasts 10s because it can be extended by sacrificing summons while it's active (notice Doomsday has a 15s timer and has to be used within this cd). So if you plan ahead and have a few summons up + enough Auracite for a couple more + Osmose you can extend it quite a bit, and everything is sped up during that cd so it's easier to handle everything going on.

With creativity, and an idea interesting enough to warrant the effort, I feel lore should never get in the way unless the game has be designed with a super realistic ground work which FFXIV has not. Not to make lore not sound important though, you should absolutely put effort into the lore not being slapped around for no reason, and spend time using it to back your gameplay too when possible as that adds a lot of flow/immersive potential, but still that you can massage it and add material where you need. Particularly I find that because the world ages things develop and this adds a lot of leeway as long as you are willing to spend time making the changes- just like real life and technology or culture. Time can be a huge friend in making something happen.

Sometimes people use lore like some impossible wall to surmount, like it's a fact it can't be done any other way because lore, but I feel that ignores the natural progression of the world, well that and Yoshida has said gameplay before lore (but ideally we get both in matrimony lol), and so I unfortunately I often cannot see people using it any other way than to casually say no without putting more effort into the conversation. As because a lot of these people are quite knowledgeable in the lore and could come up with solutions to their own problems if they had cared about it themselves. I think it would be more interesting to hear that "your idea isn't worth the effort to move the lore around" which begins to tell the story of what specifically is the problem, maybe the idea was bad, maybe they don't personally like what you want, maybe the idea was okay but not as good as the lore, but if the idea was good then what can we do about it? Just saying lore is almost always it seems to be the easy way to close a conversation and it's almost never actually the lore, at least when I read more interesting/more effort driven desires (I'm sure there is stuff that's just like "uh no" like let's retcon the GC leaders to be Dodos who come from the third planet around KFC, but I feel I don't see that very often at all as much as I see lore walls put up). Not that I've anything personal against the few that used it here, actually contrary I think I've eagerly agreed with a few I know by name a few times lol- still "lore no's" as I call them get my metaphorical hackles going as I've seen them proven wrong a few times and seem more like "I don't want this idea".

For a more context related example it reminds me of Summoner when I was asking for them to have more impactful spells and larger primals even if temporary. I was told impossible, cannot be done. I even tried to come up with reasons that didn't give the lore a giant middle finger, because I dont want to give lore the middle finger if I can help it lol, like creating battery like mechanics and using aether already laced in the air thanks to bahamut or other events as well as perhaps new studies found from the tomestones. Interestingly, and I'm not saying SE listened to me specifically as it could have easily been something they intended/divined themselves, that was pretty much what happened- battery mechanics and laced aether. Though things like that, more than just that example, is also why when people say SE doesn't listen I'm fairly certain they do.

Anyway, my suggestion to lore if the void is absence then might be to say that the void mages use the absence of aether to damage their foes. Just run right into the lore and agree, void is hunting for what it lacks. I'm pretty sure getting akin to blackhole magic tossed inside you is going to hurt lol. Create a miasma of absence, a plague desiring what it lacks- life force.

To add I really enjoy the idea of a morally questionable job, a job that fights fire with fire, fire right in their veins, or jobs that have a cost, like Blue Mage in FFXI, funnily something I actively go against this in real life but in games it's great lol (two wrongs don't make a right). Something I'd like to see for such a job if it happens too though is being questions, perhaps with multi-choice answers that the game then responds to. It's just a game so we shouldn't take it too seriously but I would find it interesting to have a semi-real life discussion on using powers that may be just TOO dangerous and is it morally acceptable. Maybe add a few lines with making the Scions uncomfortable.

Personally I would suggest if you must keep the voidsent part of the job, actually demons being bound to you, that the lore of the job is more accidental. Like you somehow fell into the void world while hunting down a terrible necromancer/demon thing. Soaking in the void, being assaulted from every angle, nearly dying, and then something reaches out that you somehow are able to feel into, their mistake, and you bind it to your will it allows you to attune to the others around you and you absorb/bind them too, you've not bound the entire void plane just a tiny fraction of it. Could even give the job it's own little void plane, as if you were growing an empire lol. In this way you didn't really intend to summon the demons as much as you had to, and even the quest you can try to find a way to disconnect it. The quest line could let you choose at dialog choices whether you're accepting your fate and using your powers as best you can or if you are fearful of yourself and trying to unbecome what you had. That said I would.. if possible suggest moving further away from specifically summoning the voidsent as pets in the fight just because it'd take less lore forklifting lol. Perhaps to keep summoning but remove them being demons you make it more iike creating structures that empower your other attacks, void stabilizers that help you manipulate the void warp (turrets and support structures, perhaps crystaline void). Honestly keep doing whatever you want though, just my 2 gil :D.

It is an interest of mine enough that I made two threads (morphing job, healer job) on something dark :3. To be fair, and selfishly I admit, I'd prefer to have a dark transforming job over purely a dark mage, but a dark mage could be interesting and I know some others have voiced desire for a void mage (dark theme'd jobs are probably a more niche desire but eey we are out there lol).

In theory, learning the ancient Mhachi techniques of Void summoning/binding need not even be so complicated. There is one creature alive on the Source that has the required knowledge, but convincing Cait Sith to teach you such forbidden things is another matter altogether, I suppose.

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I often cannot see people using [lore] any other way than to casually say no without putting more effort into the conversation.

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Just about every idea thread I've ever seen has people saying "no because [reason]", whether that reason be lore or they want something else fixed first or something else added instead and to be frank those posts aren't worth the time it takes to make them. Everything in this game is stuff that people just made up. If the devs have a cool idea they absolutely have to put in the game they'll find a way to make it fit. When it comes to random player ideas they're just that, ideas. We're essentially pissing in the wind but it's fun talking about things that could be and how they might work and that's as far as it goes.

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Anyway, my suggestion to lore if the void is absence then might be to say that the void mages use the absence of aether to damage their foes.

Personally I would suggest if you must keep the voidsent part of the job, actually demons being bound to you, that the lore of the job is more accidental.

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Pretty much the only information I could find on Void Mages is that they summoned Voidsent by opening rifts, and there aren't any Void Mages left. So it's a very open design space, but I do think summoning Voidsent is important to the job. That being said I wouldn't be against a version that doesn't use Voidsent because it's essentially an entirely new job that can be taken in many directions, this is just my take on it. There's something to be said for the mechanical aspect as well since there currently are no jobs with expendable minions, or a focus on dots.

Using the absence of aether is a cool idea, I don't think anything like that has been done before. It's like anti-aether. Could be used like a vacuum that drains aether from things, a controlled black hole of sorts. That certainly has potential.

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Something I'd like to see for such a job if it happens too though is being questions, perhaps with multi-choice answers that the game then responds to. It's just a game so we shouldn't take it too seriously but I would find it interesting to have a semi-real life discussion on using powers that may be just TOO dangerous and is it morally acceptable. Maybe add a few lines with making the Scions uncomfortable.

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Yep, for sure. I imagine unlocking the job would give you the choice of saying "this is too dangerous" and turning down the job, more stuff along that line would be good too. The Scions most definitely wouldn't like it and Cait Sith might even become your enemy for using it - at least until you can convince them you're only using it for good though they'd still be wary.