Concerning recent developments of third party addons, and SE's DADT stance

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Hey. Maybe you can help me out here. I was wondering what would be the motivation and thought process requirement to enter a thread and then just attack the OP. Typically, if someone doesn't have anything meaningful to say, they don't respond at all. Or, if they disagree, they express this disagreement in a general dialog that tries to address and understand the OP's view. But you chose the "abuse the op" path. Any insights? It's kinda a classic. "Attack the character, not the argument" fallacy is a true staple.


On topic:
As someone who is concerned and who does engage with the content, the newest plugin does cause some concern. It breaks the very clear line I've set for myself: It performs an action that is otherwise impossible for a player to perform. There have been borderline things in the past, but this is definitely crossing the line. This sort of thing has only ever happened once before. Anyone remember the Ungarmax exploit? Not done via 3rd party things itself, it was still something that should of been entirely impossible for a player to do. The result? Temp-bans and a fix to the exploit.

Due to that, I fully expect the player using this to be banned, as is their current MO. What I'm concerned about is the fix Square will attempt. Anyone who raids with a DPS parsing utility should also be concerned. It's removal would hurt FFXIV raiding harder then Gordias did, I'd expect, because having those metrics to go off of is a big part of the engagement for FFXIV's raiding scene.

It's more a minor concern, mind you. The things seen need to be manually created, from what I understand. The dev of the utility likely will not do that for low-complexity mechanics in savage. But, on the off chance use spikes, we could see a "fix" implemented that may not be in the best interests of the raiding community.

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Over the past week that I have been browsing the forums I have seen quite a few post of this Yshtola person entering a thread and attacking the op for no apparent reason or calling the op a liar. I think they're just here to be mean spirited or they're always having a bad day.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Due to that, I fully expect the player using this to be banned, as is their current MO. What I'm concerned about is the fix Square will attempt. Anyone who raids with a DPS parsing utility should also be concerned. It's removal would hurt FFXIV raiding harder then Gordias did, I'd expect, because having those metrics to go off of is a big part of the engagement for FFXIV's raiding scene.

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This reason is precisely why SE will never outright ban parses. They know it would destroy their raid scene. Even if they did attempt it, people would develop workarounds within days and parsing would move to discord. I wager SE would rather deal with the devil they know.

Now that isn't to say I agree with the add on. Frankly, I think it crosses the line as it goes beyond a call out trigger and basically trivializes the entire fight. But in the event they go after programs like this, I'd be very surprised if they did anything about parsers.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I would love to see an official statement from Yoshi P regarding the devs opinion of addons, but I doubt that would happen, I'm not sure what he would even say.

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They've already voiced their dislike of them. Yoshida specifically mentioned the Titan gaol plug in people used for UwU as something they didn't agree with, and were supposedly going to change how they coded fights in the future. Evidently, that hasn't happened yet.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Over time, addons have become increasingly capable. While I realize that there's a crowd, probably a fair few who lurk on these forums especially, that would be all to happy to let SE drop the ban hammer, that's not a realistic option when the game client lacks certain basic functionalities that are needed for certain content.

Nonetheless, very recently an addon was developed that - even by the standards of people who regularly use parsers and so on - I think most would consider to be outright cheating. Nothing is needed to run some of these other than the basic framework/access that parsers provide.

I mention this particularly because this particular addon is powerful enough it might actually get an official response from SE. I'm hoping that response will be wise, and not knee jerk.

SE, once - well over half a decade ago now - you promised us addon support directly in the ARR client. Providing us this means you can also draw the line on just how capable they are, and prevent stuff like that has come out in recent developments. Both turning a blind eye to recent capabilities of addons, but also strongly enforcing a ban of all addons, both would - at least in my opinion - be grave mistakes for the game long term. I hope you will, once more, consider adding official addon support so these can exist without becoming too powerful.

Please consider this before pandora's box can't be closed again.

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The game does not lack *any* certain functions that a third party modification is necessary, whatsoever. For you to assume any third party application be supported, or have support its completely absurd and actually laughable. If you use the most commonly used parser out there (that i have not needed since 1.0), and claim it is something you "need" you are wrong. Period. And also in violation of the ToS and i sincerely hope all of you get a ban hammer or a warning.

I don't think XIV needs an add-on function, as it pretty much gives everything you need to play it. There's no missing 'basic functionalities' that stop you from raiding; you have markers, waymarks, and macros at your disposal. Parsers and add ons are not required or needed to clear anything. However, I do also understand people's use of parsers, especially if used in the setting to better yourself in your chosen role and class. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and is the spirit of the add on. Does everyone use it that way? Nah. You got dicks and those are the ones who get banned because they're dicks.

As for this new add on, it's pretty much well over the line and into another country. You're not raiding or engaging in the content, you're practically bypassing it and spitting on the developers that made it. That one you're speaking of is definitely cheating and it borderline sounds almost hacking in a way.

ah the parser supporters who can't read numbers or look at the meter next to their name in their party. Pathetic argument.

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Originally Posted by Saranade

ah the parser supporters who can't read numbers or look at the meter next to their name in their party. Pathetic argument.

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I have the weird feeling you don't do savage or ultimate...

I have this feeling you are trying to suggest that if you participate in savage or ultimate content then you *must* need a third party add on?

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I have the weird feeling you don't do savage or ultimate...

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If i need a third party add on to solely participate in savage or ultimate content, it supports my argument why these programs or add ins against the ToS should be patched, banned, begone.

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Originally Posted by SweetestLily

Over the past week that I have been browsing the forums I have seen quite a few post of this Yshtola person entering a thread and attacking the op for no apparent reason or calling the op a liar. I think they're just here to be mean spirited or they're always having a bad day.

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Yshtola or whatever flavor of the week character they choose to post from, thrives on negative attention. I guess for them it's better than getting no attention. Pretty sad if you ask me, but my suggestion is don't feed the troll when it's begging to be fed.

Ultimately, what has resulted from the widespread, ultimately, accepted use of parses and action warnings, is an impact on the difficulty of savage or ultimate. Thus resulting in more handicaps added to your already handicapped version of the game.
Play the game as it's intended. Turn off your ay see tee and try and play like a real gamer.