Ongoing concern with content selling in party finder

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Not... really. I'd have to do some digging but someone on reddit who sells content explained the whole gist of it, how profitable it actually is and etc. Going off memory, they said they averaged five or so buyers in the first couple weeks but it peppers off fast; Ultimate especially. The amount of people both willing and capable of spending this kind of money are very few and far in between. If I had to estimate, maybe 1-2% of Ultimate clears were bought. It may even be less.

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you see people who have legend titles all the time, there is no way there are so many skilled people playing this game, I would say the number is more like 50%.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

SE could decide that advertising the sales of loot and kills is an offence. Or decide that using PF for anything other than to make a party is an offence. And they could easily get their GM staff to get on top of it.

SE can do more. They're just not really bothered for some reason : /

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^ This. Easiest way to deal with this right here, right now is to make misuse/mislabeling in PF into a reportable/banable offense.

For those who think that's too harsh or worry about the potential for abuse--the ban can be from using PF, just like a DF ban. The more times you are reported the more penalties you rack up until you're banned from using it all together. This can be a daily reset or full-day bans can rack up to a permaban from PF. This wont affect players making parties or even participating in duties--just from spamming up PF with their ad crap.

I also think a Static tab should be added. That spam is annoying too but at least its people looking for groups. (Just stop using the premium roulette labels. Got no grudge here beyond that).

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

you see people who have legend titles all the time, there is no way there are so many skilled people playing this game, I would say the number is more like 50%.

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Because those players tend to be active. If you hang around Limsa especially, you'll see plenty of Legends. Saying 50% have bought Ultimate clears is downright silly. For reference sake, if we assume UwU has 5,000 clears and we lowball the sale price at $500 per. That equates to $1.25M in sales for one Ultimate. Believe me, content sellers would LOVE if that many people bought clears. They don't.

It's typically quite easy to find out if someone bought a clear. Check FFlogs. If they don't have a parse, it's highly likely they bought it as no content seller will upload parses for you because it risks them being caught.

This is ... not an easy situation to deal with, and in fact, it's much like prohibition: if S-E starts actively punishing people who do it, it will just go underground (Discord, third party websites that S-E has no control over). I think S-E knows this too, and given that the players perpetrating this behaviour are typically loyal and hardcore players, they don't want to go down too hard on them, because they want to keep their subscriptions, and given the fact the practice won't end, well, where's the upside?

Sure, you could levy temporary bans (even if it's just for using PF) and it would get rid of some of the listing (though most of us do ignore them), but it would still infest the game, so ...?

As bad as it sounds, just blacklist the people who are doing consent selling in PF. That's about all you can do.

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Originally Posted by KamBrez

snip

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SE is aware of the RMT going on publicly and is fine with it at this time. Their stance may change if more start doing it.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I just want to comment on this. You're misinterpreting the intent. This rule exists solely to protect SE in the event someone claims they weren't using their account, thus they shouldn't be responsible for potential violations.

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I thought the same and checked with a GM on it. Because it's prohibited by the ToS, you can get in trouble for doing it. If you're wondering why SE will allow sales of Ultimate (which require account piloting), it's because they can claim ignorance unless either party admits to it in chat.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Speaking for myself, I'm somewhat indifferent to content selling. It doesn't give anyone an "edge" so to speak since PvE content isn't directly competitive. Someone buying an UwU clear doesn't impact my clear or gameplay—at least not compared to the rampant bot problem.

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The Ultimates get synced with the supposed reason of keeping the difficulty intact. SE can't say that in one breath and then in another say it's fine to pay gil or real money to someone to control your character and clear the content for you.

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Originally Posted by HiroesX81

The thing is, alot of us are aware of it and as vexing as it is, as long as negotiationas are conducted via discord and theres nothing substantial ingame that any transactions are taking place, theres not much SE can do about it.

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If several dozen ads started being present in the PF at all times, you can bet SE would do something about it. If they didn't, then RMT would be as "legal" (regarding ToS, not real-world law) as parsing (it already is, but the ads would let more casual players know).

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Originally Posted by HiroesX81

Its one thing if youre using gil but if youre using RMT for this.

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Using gil would actually be worse as the sellers will sell it for real money. There is less of an impact on the game economy if content sales are done for real money.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

If only this sort of thing was dealt with as harshly as bad language is. Especially when there's much more scope for harm given the stakes and risk of fraud.

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They can't ignore profanity and harassment, which is why it gets dealt with (unless we're talking about Feast chat, in which case it just gets removed). The RMT doesn't involve scams, other than some of the pricing. There would be no reason to commit theft and risk any potential future customers when they're perfectly capable of providing the service.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

For reference sake, if we assume UwU has 5,000 clears and we lowball the sale price at $500 per.

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Last I checked, the Ultimates go for $150 or 60 mil gil. Actually makes more sense to get the gil through crafting with macros while watching TV than it does to spend 100 hours progging the fight with no guarantee of a clear.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

This is ... not an easy situation to deal with

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Actually very easy to deal with, just a matter of SE wanting to do something about it.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

it will just go underground (Discord, third party websites that S-E has no control over).

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Already happens.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

because they want to keep their subscriptions, and given the fact the practice won't end, well, where's the upside?

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The PF won't have ads that show the ToS are nothing more than a suggestion.

Idea: Prohibit content sales in PF and replace them with Mog Station ads. At least those would benefit players having to view it with the possibility of seeing a return.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

As bad as it sounds, just blacklist the people who are doing consent selling in PF.

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Does nothing but gray out the ad and most ads are done by dummy accounts.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

This is ... not an easy situation to deal with, and in fact, it's much like prohibition: if S-E starts actively punishing people who do it, it will just go underground (Discord, third party websites that S-E has no control over). I think S-E knows this too, and given that the players perpetrating this behaviour are typically loyal and hardcore players, they don't want to go down too hard on them, because they want to keep their subscriptions, and given the fact the practice won't end, well, where's the upside?

Sure, you could levy temporary bans (even if it's just for using PF) and it would get rid of some of the listing (though most of us do ignore them), but it would still infest the game, so ...?

As bad as it sounds, just blacklist the people who are doing consent selling in PF. That's about all you can do.

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How do you blacklist someone you can't target?

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

SE is aware of the RMT going on publicly and is fine with it at this time. Their stance may change if more start doing it.

You forgot to edit out some Discord info in the images.

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Thank you - fix now.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

They don't carry you. They login with your own account and do it.

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Honestly, that sounds scary.

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Originally Posted by LeonTrifang

Honestly, that sounds scary.

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It's not too bad if you don't give your email and email password out,I'd imagine. If they did take anything you cod always change your password, though I suppose that would be after they stripped you clean.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Because those players tend to be active. If you hang around Limsa especially, you'll see plenty of Legends. Saying 50% have bought Ultimate clears is downright silly. For reference sake, if we assume UwU has 5,000 clears and we lowball the sale price at $500 per. That equates to $1.25M in sales for one Ultimate. Believe me, content sellers would LOVE if that many people bought clears. They don't.

It's typically quite easy to find out if someone bought a clear. Check FFlogs. If they don't have a parse, it's highly likely they bought it as no content seller will upload parses for you because it risks them being caught.

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They do fflogs for you as well according to the add on the first page.