Suggestion for: RDM improvements

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

difficulty doesn't mean anything.

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It most certainly does. Do you think classes that are more difficult to play shouldn't be rewarded in kind for optimal performance?

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

How much damage a job does has nothing to do with whether or not you think it's simple to play.

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This isn't about what I personally think is simple. RDM is objectively much easier to play than most other classes, and possibly maybe on par with a couple of the classes Wayfinder pointed out. And it can rez and heal. It's notorious for being braindead, everywhere from these very forums, to ffxiv reddit, to FC forums, to in game chat. Are you really contesting this?

To both of you, I think raising RDM damage is fine as long as the damage is accompanied by added complexity. Do you agree to that at least?

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Originally Posted by alchemi80

It most certainly does. Do you think classes that are more difficult to play shouldn't be rewarded in kind for optimal performance?


This isn't about what I personally think is simple. RDM is objectively much easier to play than most other classes, and possibly maybe on par with a couple of the classes Wayfinder pointed out. And it can rez and heal. It's notorious for being braindead, everywhere from these very forums, to ffxiv reddit, to FC forums, to in game chat. Are you really contesting this?

To both of you, I think raising RDM damage is fine as long as the damage is accompanied by added complexity.

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...22/unknown.png


This was about 1 week into 5.08. The higher the number on the top right, the more difficult or inconsistent the player base is at performing high DPS. The lower the number the more consistent. Healers have an obviously high gap from healing. SMN/RDM would be skewed slightly from using raise GCDs, but not by much. In many ways, Monk and Dragoon are much easier than even Red Mage. They've practically baby proofed the melee.

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Originally Posted by Zyneste

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...22/unknown.png


This was about 1 week into 5.08. The higher the number on the top right, the more difficult or inconsistent the player base is at performing high DPS. The lower the number the more consistent. Healers have an obviously high gap from healing. SMN/RDM would be skewed slightly from using raise GCDs, but not by much. In many ways, Monk and Dragoon are much easier than even Red Mage. They've practically baby proofed the melee.

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Upper right number seems confused.

It's less than 20 difference between Max and Min on Red mage, about the same as Dragoon, and only 1 less than Ninja.

In other words, you got differences of 19.x, 20.x, and 21.x.

No one in their right mind would say "Dragoon is only slightly easier than Ninja" or "Red mage is just as difficult as Ninja", or "Paladin is harder than all of them."

Delete both rdm and blu and fused them together so they can become the Magnificent VioletMage!!!

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Originally Posted by giwaman

Delete both rdm and blu and fused them together so they can become the Magnificent VioletMage!!!

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And thus, a new job was born!

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Originally Posted by giwaman

Delete both rdm and blu and fused them together so they can become the Magnificent VioletMage!!!

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You my friend deserve a huge /hug

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Originally Posted by alchemi80

It most certainly does. Do you think classes that are more difficult to play shouldn't be rewarded in kind for optimal performance?


This isn't about what I personally think is simple. RDM is objectively much easier to play than most other classes, and possibly maybe on par with a couple of the classes Wayfinder pointed out. And it can rez and heal. It's notorious for being braindead, everywhere from these very forums, to ffxiv reddit, to FC forums, to in game chat. Are you really contesting this?

To both of you, I think raising RDM damage is fine as long as the damage is accompanied by added complexity. Do you agree to that at least?

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You haven't even leveled red mage nevermind played it in high end content nevermind optimized its damage at that level. Tell me, why should anyone let a level 60 RDM tell them what "objectively" is true about the class? Why should we even entertain demands related to the job from someone who doesn't even have it leveled?

This seems like a pretty common pattern I must say. People love talking crap about RDM but then when you look at their lodestone guess what? They barely even touched it. I mean you don't even have any eden savage clears so lol

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Originally Posted by alchemi80

RDM damage is fine. It's a very very simple class to play, and accessible to new players. This has value. I would, however, like to see them with 2-3 mob debuffs, as RDMs have in other FF games. This will further differentiate them from being BLM-lite, along with the cure and rez they already have.

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I find BLM easier than RDM, your point is?

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Originally Posted by alchemi80

It most certainly does. Do you think classes that are more difficult to play shouldn't be rewarded in kind for optimal performance?


This isn't about what I personally think is simple. RDM is objectively much easier to play than most other classes, and possibly maybe on par with a couple of the classes Wayfinder pointed out. And it can rez and heal. It's notorious for being braindead, everywhere from these very forums, to ffxiv reddit, to FC forums, to in game chat. Are you really contesting this?

To both of you, I think raising RDM damage is fine as long as the damage is accompanied by added complexity. Do you agree to that at least?

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No it doesn’t, because these jobs aren’t that far apart in difficulty to begin with and, No job is WAY harder than of them but i'll humor you. Let’s say BLM is harder than RDM, by how much is it harder, and how much of that should matter. NIN is touted as being harder than MNK but it's worse, and AST is arguably much more difficult than WHM especially on a controller but there is very marginal difference between the 2. so really, how much should difficulty matter in RDM's case when it doesn't matter anywhere else?

Give me a statistic before you try and feed your “objective” conjecture on a completely subjective subject

there is no "objectively harder" to play, only "statistically more people find harder" to play. Having said that, classes need to be tuned around DPS output and utility tax, not difficulty. If a class is too difficult to pull off the require max DPS, then what the designers should do is not to buff their DPS, but make the class less complicated to perform at max DPS. This is to balance the classes at the highest levels of raids around Savage. In fact, utilities shouldn't be taxed so heavily that they either become useless or required for raiding progression.

Another way to look at it is to "assume all high end players have sufficient skill to play all DPS at 99% effectiveness"; if the gap is big enough, nobody will play those simpler-to-play classes with lower DPS.

I don't raid Savage myself, but I've been playing MMO for over 10 years with experience from other games and the above is the best DPS balance philosophy imo.