Do SMN and BRD need 2 DoTs?

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

I believe you’re missing the point entirely so I will lay out my entire argument in simple terms.

Caustic Bite and Stormbite do not need to be separate buttons are they are only used together, or refreshed simultaneously with Iron Jaws.
As such, there would be no significant changes to BRD gameplay (besides 1 extra heavy shot in the opener) if Iron Jaws applied both DoTs instead of refreshing their durations.

I believe that 3 buttons existing to do 1 button’s job is bad job design, so I want either:
1) The 3 buttons consolidated into 1. This is the boring solution.
2) The debuff durations to not be identical. This is the better solution, as it gives Caustic and Storm more uses than just ‘apply in the opener and unbind’

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I will lay out my disagreement in equally simple terms:

There would be no significant changes... other than dumbing down the job for no reason simply because you want to press one button instead of two? Sorry, I don’t see the need for your change. Not everything needs to be easy.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

That is completely different than what you suggested earlier. Make up your mind.

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“Hmm yeah I do have issues getting my ideas across lemee check”

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

Both DoTs being the same duration as well as able to be refreshed simultaneously leads to them being acting like a single DoT.
Would removing Wind Bite and Miasma (and adjusting potencies to make up for the lost dot) actually affect level 80 gameplay at all?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

Caustic Bite and Stormbite do not need to be separate buttons are they are only used together, or refreshed simultaneously with Iron Jaws.
As such, there would be no significant changes to BRD gameplay (besides 1 extra heavy shot in the opener) if Iron Jaws applied both DoTs instead of refreshing their durations.

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Oh, never mind.
I changed the wording from an absolute ‘changes at all’ to ‘significant changes’.

As a SCH main who has been reduced to one for, do not take away the second dot from SMN too, or if you do take away the dots from BRD/SMN give them to SCH please, I would love to have more to do again.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

As a SCH main who has been reduced to one for, do not take away the second dot from SMN too, or if you do take away the dots from BRD/SMN give them to SCH please, I would love to have more to do again.

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They arnt the same, SMN already has a million buttons to press so I’m fine with the one button dot for an already inflated class, but not knowing what they will do to it in, 5.1 leaves me to believe that this topic for SMN can be tabled for another time.

Having three dots was stupid no matter how people wanted it back, the manual reset of dots that had different timing and just wasting another GCD.....now BRD on the other hand doesn’t need one button action and flaming arrow should come back along with wide volley in my opinion, they need more song options and foes back, BRD was gutted badly and how apex arrow works bothers me a lot....

If everyone wants simple and efficient, why not just go with an "attack" button ffs. Why can't people enjoy difficult, challenging things? Enjoy mastering something, SMN (since it's being used as an example elsewhere) was always a button mashing disaster, but if you were truly good, mobs vapourized before your DoT wielding might! Was it hard, easy to mess up? You bet, but it was beautiful. All this dumbing down of the classes is making combat feel watered down and boring, the complexity is there to make it interesting, challenging, engaging, and fun. If you don't think it's those things then maybe consider that you're not the target audience of this game, not everything needs to be for everyone. Fair does not mean equal..and all that jazz. Now excuse me while I go back and make a mockery of DNC some more

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

The cast time on miasma means that it and bio can be applied simultaneously, and having the same duration means that they should always be applied simultaneously. There’s no point in them being separate because they’re always used together, like Berserk and Inner Release.
Im not advocating for the dumbing down of summoner or bard, I’m highlighting that there are redundant skills.

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Most dot based pet classes in any game have more then 1 dot. its not redundant its a fundamental part of most DOT/PET classes.
Although summoner needs a complete overhaul to be honest. The summons are useless glorified pets that have no real value. That needs to be addressed more then dots

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

I believe you’re missing the point entirely so I will lay out my entire argument in simple terms.

Caustic Bite and Stormbite do not need to be separate buttons are they are only used together, or refreshed simultaneously with Iron Jaws.
As such, there would be no significant changes to BRD gameplay (besides 1 extra heavy shot in the opener) if Iron Jaws applied both DoTs instead of refreshing their durations.

I believe that 3 buttons existing to do 1 button’s job is bad job design, so I want either:
1) The 3 buttons consolidated into 1. This is the boring solution.
2) The debuff durations to not be identical. This is the better solution, as it gives Caustic and Storm more uses than just ‘apply in the opener and unbind’

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So by separating the timers, you fix nothing, aside from adding in more uses of Iron Jaws to reset the durations? Even if they are separate timers, Iron Jaws STILL resets durations...Your argument, personally, is moot for bard. SMN MAYBE? Only because of how seemingly chaotic their rotations are with how much pet ability double weaving it has now. However bard doesn't need to be easier than it already is, like many people have already advocated reasoning for.

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Originally Posted by TroubadourAura

So by separating the timers, you fix nothing, aside from adding in more uses of Iron Jaws to reset the durations? Even if they are separate timers, Iron Jaws STILL resets durations...Your argument, personally, is moot for bard. SMN MAYBE? Only because of how seemingly chaotic their rotations are with how much pet ability double weaving it has now. However bard doesn't need to be easier than it already is, like many people have already advocated reasoning for.

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Desyncronising the timings for Caustic and Storm would make you manually dot and use IJ only when they're both about to run out. A more engaging system than just "I IJ every 30s and in raid buff" I think.

No, it would only make you use Iron Jaws whenever the shorter duration of the dots runs out. E.g. 30s dot applied on first gcd, 24s dot applied on second gcd. The first one to wear off will be the 24s duration dot with 3s remaining on the 30s one. Both are reset to 30s and 24s respectively. 24s later you reapply with Iron Jaws since the 24s duration is about to run out with 6s left on the 30s dot. Both are reset to 30s and 24s again. Repeat. The 30s dot would have 6s of useless duration on it with no point. Nevermind that Iron Jaws gives extra proc chance for using it over hard casting the dots, so using Iron Jaws will be preferable even ignoring the timer thing.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

They arnt the same, SMN already has a million buttons to press so I’m fine with the one button dot for an already inflated class, but not knowing what they will do to it in, 5.1 leaves me to believe that this topic for SMN can be tabled for another time.

Having three dots was stupid no matter how people wanted it back, the manual reset of dots that had different timing and just wasting another GCD.....now BRD on the other hand doesn’t need one button action and flaming arrow should come back along with wide volley in my opinion, they need more song options and foes back, BRD was gutted badly and how apex arrow works bothers me a lot....

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The only time you are actually hard casting miasma is in the quiet parts of the summoner rotation.The rest of the time you are useing tridisaster so its not like it's causing button bloat to summoner.