Warrior and Dark Knight's Predicament

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Originally Posted by Marc-Vigar

I never said it's better or worse than the others, it's unique like PLD's Sheltron, but it's definitely not free and has a high risk if you are not familiar with the encounter, also by the time you reach that point of knowledge about the fight you can play any other tank and be fine.

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But i wouldn't want to for the simple fact of it being the most optimal skill to use. Its not really a high risk either its a high reward when used properly you have a massive mitigation skill that refunds its cost with a free skill usage when it breaks.

Improper usage is the only time its a high risk. Any time its used properly it rewards you. Only problem with TBN is when gear scaling becomes an issue and even large wall to wall.pulls cant break it because it just shields too much damage.

Here is my rough translation about the OP and the responses; "Healers Adjust"

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Originally Posted by Lyth

By the way, if you want to express your rebuttal to a point, at least have the consideration to create a new post instead of editing your old one. Not all of us want to double post just to respond.

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My final edit was completed within 3 minutes of the original post, having merely added on the component about Aurora to the absorption/restoration over time comparisons, and has nothing to do with you. Glad to know that simple multiplication is still "cryptic gibberish" so long as it points out any area a DRK may outperform another job, though?

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Again, cryptic gibberish aside, you can't really compare apples and oranges.

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I compared only HoS and TBN and Aurora and TBN.

In the first case, both increase eHP. They are near identical concepts. One need only work within the typical ranges of damage to be taken over any given 7-second window including or 15/25 seconds away from a tankbuster that would require the added mitigation of HoS/TBN.

In the second, there's nothing healing can do that shields cannot, so I merely took the best case scenario for Aurora (no added eHP needed, only restoration) and compared it against TBN. Even in such a case Aurora regenerates per 90 seconds less than any given TBN saves. For the combination Aurora and HoS and TBN alone to then be even -- or, "a wash" -- TBN could only provide about an Aurora's worth more absorption than HoS over time, and even then TBN would have the lead in that Aurora does not provide added maximum eHP. But that's simply not the case. TBN will on average provide at least three times the mitigation of HoS over time. It's far from "a wash" -- DRK has a clear lead.

Tanks are perfectly like they are.

Its the best balance between Tanks in ages.

Doesn't matter if one tank does as much/ a bit more DPS you can clear all content as well as the current savage with whatever tank you choose to play, it just all depends on what you like.

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I don't think that you can trade off damage against utility.

WAR and DRK have lower dps because they have more burst. There is a slight tuning issue here, in that the jobs with more burst should really be doing more damage in low uptime fights while losing out on higher uptime fights (rather than it always working out in GNB and PLD's favour). That being said, with tanks doing rsignificantly less damage this expansion when compared to dps, the present differences don't make that much of a difference.

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the game is built around utility vs damage. the jobs with less utility have more damage to compensate and the other two tanks have more to offer to the party than the other two. paladin and gunbreaker utility are better than the other two. both their shields are all damage, while only war is all damage (but requires resources to outdo pld) and dark is magic only, which shouldnt even be a thing. drk isnt "the magic tank" and se shouldnt be supporting it as such).


war and dark do have lower dps due to burst, but you are incorrect to say that they will come up on top because of low uptime fights. it is highly dependent on the fight and how it lines up with their burst. unless when the boss jumps and the boss comes back when their burst just comes up, this argument you made is erroneous. example being, if the fight ends just before IR comes off cd, the warrior did less damage. their lowest point is then. so, in E1S, during the add phase, your IR comes off cd and unless you get to use the full duration just before those adds die, you lost your window of damage. the faster the dps are with their damage, the more likely you will not get it off. the transition is 60s, that means if you didnt get it off or you only got like 1 or 2 FCs, you lost a significant amount of dps, because all wars dps is in IR and that is a problem. that means, CONSISTENT damage will come on top. this was an issue in Stormblood and it is still an issue in Shadowbringers. 4.2 IR should not exist. War is not bursty enough with the logic you are saying. war just doesnt do damage for 80s.

also, warrior's rotation fights itself. the "eye issue" delays their burst and IC can also push it back further, struggling to line up with party buffs.

dark essentially needs a ninja to do damage.

pld is consistent. it still needs pt buffs, but it doesnt hurt them nearly as much.

gnb pretty much has a burst for every party buff phase.

this means that the fights exclusively cater to pld and gnb and punish war and dark.


dont even get me started on how during *every* major mechanic, IR is up and that window is so tight that if you get screwed over by a mechanic or forced into downtime because you were pushed back into your rotation because of IC or eye problems....

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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I don't want to play a card game just to get to the point of your post. Sometimes it pays to be succinct.

Healing doesn't prevent you from getting oneshot. Mitigation doesn't prevent you from being slowly whittled down over time. That's why you can't compare the two.

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Tanks are perfectly like they are.

Its the best balance between Tanks in ages.

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if you actually think they are balanced, could you explain how? dps? they may do similar damage on paper, but in the field, this is incorrect. defense? gnb and warrior have way more cds than pld and dark. take dark in lower 69 and below content, they have nothing. healing? war has equilibrium on a 60s cd. it can be buffed by 20% for 10s, but it is only ONE CAST and NF needs a target. pld can use requiscat and clemency 5x with a buff of 50% and can hallowed ground during it. drk has AD and needs many targets to make it worth it. gunbreaker only has aurora. in leveling content, pld doesnt need a healer. they can solo dungeons/bosses. i have witnessed it.i can do it.

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Doesn't matter if one tank does as much/ a bit more DPS you can clear all content as well as the current savage with whatever tank you choose to play, it just all depends on what you like.

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just because jobs can clear content doesnt mean they are good. pld in heavensward could clear creator savage, but it needed a LOT of gear padding to do it. yes, strong jobs like blm or sam can clear content, if they know what they are doing, but other utility jobs NEED to be good at their job to do this, too. they need to try HARDER. it takes more EFFORT. that is the problem with your rebuttal. if another tank has to struggle more just to clear than another tank, then they are not fine. and it isnt just based on what you like. if you need a clear, you play what you NEED to.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Healing doesn't prevent you from getting oneshot. Mitigation doesn't prevent you from being slowly whittled down over time. That's why you can't compare the two.

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I argued that TBN is superior, in the vast majority of cases and for mitigation over time, to HoS.

HoS is mitigation (incoming-damage percentile). TBN is mitigation (target-maxHP percentile). They absolutely can be compared.

Again, unless your intent is to argue that Aurora is more than enough to make up for HoS's lower mitigation over time compared to TBN, despite a single heal being inherently less versatile than a single shield of the same value, healing has had no place in this conversation. You're taking offense at your own projections.

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Originally Posted by millktea

just because jobs can clear content doesnt mean they are good. pld in heavensward could clear creator savage, but it needed a LOT of gear padding to do it. yes, strong jobs like blm or sam can clear content, if they know what they are doing, but other utility jobs NEED to be good at their job to do this, too. they need to try HARDER. it takes more EFFORT. that is the problem with your rebuttal. if another tank has to struggle more just to clear than another tank, then they are not fine. and it isnt just based on what you like. if you need a clear, you play what you NEED to.

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I'm not talking about what was I'm talking about what is now as it stands the tanks are more balanced then they ever have been no longer are you pigeon holding a WAR for slashing or because of how it has Unchained, how back in HW PLD was only good in physical encounters and suffered in magical. What I'm talking about is right now as of this moment bringing any tank doesn't hinder you at all period, sure some have god support like PLD with Cover/Intervention/Divine Veil doesn't mean that bringing a DRK for example is gonna hinder you because you don't have Intervention its nice to have.

I don't NEED to play GNB or NEED to play PLD because they're the 2 best tanks I play what I want to play because I enjoy playing DRK and my buddy who I raid with enjoys playing WAR that's why both of us play either, just because people aren't happy with DRK or WAR doesn't mean they're not fun and you can't dictate what I wanna play.