The idea that we need to DPS must go.

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Originally Posted by Lagomorph

If you think this is true, you must be running all the content that you do with a premade group of dps that is perpetually trying to grief you by taking as much damage as possible.

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"It's not griefing! We're from the ministry of healer engagement, and we're here to help!"

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Originally Posted by Connor

I know this is a troll post but since I’m here I might well say that I think it’d be cool if they found a way to make it so healers have more interesting ways to contribute during downtime than just hitting the enemy, something to spend our GCDs on like buffs and debuffs that require managing mp / casting time / etc.

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The last time we had that was with the HW-SB AST. Which would throw out cards that could grant damage resistance, MP recovery, TP recovery, increased attack/cast speed, increased crit rate, or a general increased damage output. AST could also extend the length of the buffs and could even stun enemies.

That system was reworked with this expansion. AST can only throw out low general damage increases.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I know this is a troll post but since I’m here I might well say that I think it’d be cool if they found a way to make it so healers have more interesting ways to contribute during downtime than just hitting the enemy, something to spend our GCDs on like buffs and debuffs that require managing mp / casting time / etc.

Something altruistic, rather than just being purely offensive, because I feel like stacking offensive spells on healers is just a band-aid on the fact that healing requirements are far too low for how super powered our healing kits are, and the purpose of
the role gradually diminishes as player skill increases, which seems a little backwards to me.

Like, the job description in the job guide describes the role as ‘Healers use restorative arts to mend wounded companions. They can also help to mitigate damage, remove detrimental effects, and even bring fallen allies back to life‘. There’s no mention of how massively important the DPS spells are to the job, even if there was only one attack spell that dealt 30 potency it’d still be the most used spell for healers. There’s no mention of dealing damage, helping one’s comrades to defeat powerful enemies, utilising respectably powered offensive spells, or some kind of flavour text to make it clear how important those damage spells are in party play. And I can see why it’s caused so much frustration. Players who were drawn to the job to contribute through healing and support are put off by the job being sold as such but then playing more offensively than you’d expect. And one the other hand, there are players who were drawn to the way the job contributed offense rather than support, who are all left confused as to why the developers are ignoring such an important part of the healer toolkit

That said I’m well aware that this would require a rework of the entirety of the game and thus isn’t ever going to be anything more than a pipe dream.

Also I wish people wouldn’t always use the ‘HeAleR DPS nEeDs to StOp’ when they’re trolling, because it makes everyone who thinks that healers could reasonably work more ‘healer-like’ (for want of a better term) rather than hybrids also look like trolls who just want a rise out of someone. I’d love if healers has to heal more, but at the same time I have to be realistic. It’s more likely that we’ll see healers go down a more offensive route than a supportive one in the future, because then the majority of players are happy and the developers don’t need to retune any current content. The fact is that healers have to DPS just like they did before, because the game is designed so that in all content if you aren’t dps’ing as a healer then you’re literally doing nothing most of the time

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Personally, I'm in the camp of wanting to DPS when I heal. Being able to DPS and keep the team alive and thriving is essentially what separates the good healers from the bad ones, or at least the ones who are learning. That being said, I like that there's more healing pressure in 5.0 content so far and would love to see that tread continue. I want to DPS, and I want that DPS to be fun and engaging, but I don't need it to be my most used set of tools.

That out of the way, I do think it is entirely possible for the healers to be designed in a way that allows them to contribute to DPS (either directly or through padding) through their healing tools.

White Mage's Afflatus Misery is a simple example of this concept, particularly when AoEing enemies where burning lilies to heal your allies, even if you have oGCD heals to burn is more beneficial for DPS than spamming Holy. It would be nice if this were extended to single-target as well so that against raid bosses, Afflatus Misery was less of DPS forgiveness and more just a raw, highly desired spell you want to get ASAP. But it can become even more complex than that if we really wanted to.

Here's an example of what I mean, and keep in mind I'm making a very extreme suggestion that I don't imply should literally be done, but just to explain an idea.

Let's pretend we're redesigning White Mage from the ground up for a second, and in this iteration, there will be no Stone, Aero, Glare, Dia, Holy, etc... Instead, every time your healing spells overheal an ally, they grow a lily in a way similar to a confession stack. Just like Afflatus Misery's blood lily, you need to do this 3 times before the flower is fully nourished. When you've fully nourished a flower on an ally, that flower explodes for AoE damage against any enemies around them. Now, all your damage would come from spamming healing. Again, I don't mean this is literally what WHM should do exclusively, but there are ways to creatively design DPS contribution through healing. I think what is important is that rather than just spamming heals for damage, in practice it should be more meaningful application of healing.

I think the problem stems from the fact that the designers don't play healer, and they're a little afraid to do something creative and risky. Think about it. Since Heavensward, everything they've tried to do with the healers has always been met with criticism. I totally understand why they tried to go the safe route and homogenize and simplify everything.

A lot of the time your party doesn't need any healing. So when no healing is needed and you also don't want to dps, what exactly are you doing? Making emotes or doing dances don't help your team.

(And pure healing means "no shield healing", it does NOT mean only heal and don't dps)

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

No...no there is not. I play healers too, there definitely is not unless you massively overheal

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This is true. Incoming damage comes in bursts. Tank busters have a long cast time giving healers and tanks plenty of notice to react. Unavoidable party wide attacks also have a long cast time, giving healers plenty of time to prepare. Danger zones tend to give plenty of time to avoid entirely and is less a healing problem and more a positional one. Boss auto attacks tend to be slow and relatively weak.

All this adds up to massive amounts of downtime with a few occasional moments of healing.

The only way to make healing itself more of a challenge, minimizing downtime without excessively overhealing, would be to design fights with more sporadic, higher amounts of incoming damage, in a far less predictable and far more frequent way. That's what you call a healer fight, one where the main challenge of the fight is staying alive and keeping everyone healthy. Throw in a few avoidable mechanics to keep tanks and dps busy, and you have yourself a fight that isn't boring for the tanks and dps, while being more focused on keeping the healer busy and testing his ability to manage their mana usage, healing cooldowns and coordination with the other healer.

Healers that don't DPS, don't make any effort to DPS, and only utilize 1/3 of their kit (or less) should be considered Third Class Citizens and have to pay an exorbitant gil penalty to each party member that is forced to suffer alongside their miserable presence.

Here's your reply OP.

when I keep telling that healer should heal not dps ppls tell im trolling ...

and yes im dpsing while I can ...

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Originally Posted by fantasticm

Healers that don't DPS, don't make any effort to DPS, and only utilize 1/3 of their kit (or less) should be considered Third Class Citizens and have to pay an exorbitant gil penalty to each party member that is forced to suffer alongside their miserable presence.

Here's your reply OP.

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Healers should dps during downtime, this is true.

The irony of your statement, though, is that a lot of healers only use 1/3rd of their kit or less, except for the opposite reason: They use their DPS tools and barely touch their healing stuff. Not that I can blame them, for the reasons I said in my previous post.

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Originally Posted by Demetri_Delethorn

Not a troll post. As we move toward a more pure healing role, I think it is the natural course.

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Even this guy's post signature is trolling lol

Or maybe can we just push the damage receive to so much higher that we will spend 80% of our time healing and the rest dodging mechanics.