SE needs to do more to help bad players

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Not from the encounter side, aye, since they are balanced with 0 healer DPS.
Definitely from the community side though, simply because there are healers that do DPS and people will prefer an actively contributing player over one that stands around doing nothing during healing downtime.

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I agree it's preferred that the Healer DPS when able, but saying it's a "major offense" implies it's a requirement, which it's not. I prefer to be doing something when I'm playing my Healer when no one needs healing. Though if the Healer in the group doesn't want to do anything, I'm not going to be mad like some people here will be.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Just like moving out of stuff that doesn't one shot you isn't a requirement as a DPS, but as a healer I am almost certain you appreciate it.

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Wrong. Avoiding damage is a requirement of every role.

Tank - Mitigate damage as much as possible.
Healer/DPS - Avoid taking damage that can be avoided.

That's part of the role.

Squeenix doesnt need to do anything more for bad players.

They need to let the community use available tools to let it police / teach itself.

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Originally Posted by Nims

@Misutoraru (on mobile can’t reply with quote for some odd reason) again wanting people to push x numbers in your own created static or PF is NOT toxic in even the slightest bit.

There’s not really much to look at in these fights, they aren’t super depth.

People with common sense knows that during movement heavy fights casters might have lower dps during that movement heavy phase.

People with common sense knows that the more support geared classed aren’t going to have the highest dps cause it makes up with utility.

I mean it’s not like there’s actual raids where with super trash mobs and the mages have to go off to the side to CC or aoe those mobs down so I don’t understand your point honestly.

Also anything can hurt anyone at any time, better ban everything.

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pushing X number for a fight is not toxic, i agree

but when the community turn into comparing who have bigger number and when it use as a value to judge what someone say or type, it is one of the most toxic thing could be. One could have issue with a fight and unable to push high number but willing to learn and know every single bit of mechanics. One could have high number but love using number as harassment. This is what I have experienced in some MMO, and I dont want to see FFXIV turn into such thing

I am not trying to convince you, and I am quite sure I wont be convince by you. just sharing the thought this is a tool which bring good and bad into us, and it is how each of us value the good and the bad. in my case I see the bad outweight the good, just like we got gun ban in many countries

I don't want parsers.

I do not want WoW 2.0.

Right now FF XIV is in a good place.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

I can't take anything else you say seriously when you're classifying this as a "major offense". And I'm not going to waste my limited number of daily posts to explain what I've already explained in numerous other threads. I will make the statement once and let people REEEEE about it to their hearts' content.

DPS is not a requirement of Healers.

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I don't understand the mentality of healers not dpsing. If you're just sitting there, have nothing to heal, have full mp, do not need to mitigate important mechanics, etc., why not throw out some dps spells? While I agree that it's a bit overkill to state healers that refuse to dps is a "major offense", I still don't understand why a healer would prefer just to sit there and do nothing. I dps during healing downtime because I feel it is a more efficient use of my skills than just sitting there. Plus, healing can be really boring sometimes so I need something else to do.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

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No one does that though, I've played almost every MMO out. No one uses someone's dps as a value to judge them, UNLESS they're trying to make guides on how to play a class. If you can't properly play your class then no, you shouldn't teach people or act as if you know. Again that's just simply not toxic, that's common sense.

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I dont want to see FFXIV turn into such thing

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FFXIV will never be harsh in that way simply because there's no competition here. People are still going to raid with who they want, I've been in plenty of statics with underperforming dps but they hit mechanics.

People always mention how they don't want this community to be "toxic" as if it isn't already (while using the word toxic wrong). Real toxicity is not kicking someone or not wanting to raid with someone that doesn't know their super easy class. It's sending death threats to streamers for criticizing Eden (look it up). Or insulting people because they don't care about the lore (that's on these forums). Allowing the community to openly say "we don't want under performing dps" isn't going to change anything.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

Wrong. Avoiding damage is a requirement of every role.

Tank - Mitigate damage as much as possible.
Healer/DPS - Avoid taking damage that can be avoided.

That's part of the role.

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No it isn't. The role is to deal damage. That's it. As long as the healer can keep you alive, you can keep doing damage even if you're taking damage.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

I can't take anything else you say seriously when you're classifying this as a "major offense". And I'm not going to waste my limited number of daily posts to explain what I've already explained in numerous other threads. I will make the statement once and let people REEEEE about it to their hearts' content.

DPS is not a requirement of Healers.

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And always I will say this; if you are a healer and are not healing you DPS. Sitting around and waiting for damage to happen is lazy.

-Remove mechanics
-Make open world useful once more.
-Less punitive mechanics (1-hit wipe) and more interaction between AIs and players.
-Increase variety (BLMs with more AoEs, introduce support role, eliminate DPS as the "cookie cutter" role, etc.)

Oh wait... It's too stressful.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

I, like many of you, often find myself internally raging as I watch players commit any number of major offenses:

* Not using AoE on 3+ enemies (2 depending on class)
* Never ever ever doing damage (Healers...)
* Mindlessly failing the same mechanic over and over again

Now, the last one is the one I really wanna focus on. Even a DPS doing nothing but single target is doing damage, but dead players do zero. There is very little for a bad player to do but continuously throw themselves into content and fail. Now you would think organic learning would occur and natural progress would be made, but for some people this either never comes or simply comes unbelievably slowly. SSS is a nice idea as a test for if you can do a fight, but it doesn't ACTUALLY tell you if you are good enough to do the mechanics.

I suggest a special "Mechanic Test Zone" that players can use to bridge the gap between the lowest content and mid-core content. It would handle things like:

* Overlapping but delayed AoE's
* Time mechanics (Think E2)
* Preys
* Tank swaps
* Tankbusters
* Boss positioning
* Downtime for healers (And then different forms of burst damage)
* Patterns (to help players work on memory since that seems to be a big issue)

Simple things like these would go a LONG way to improving the general skill of this community.

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There’s sadly only so much you can do to help a bad player.