Feedback on SCH Design in Shadowbringers

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

I'll be deep in the cold cold ground before I use physick

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That's the issue I've been seeing. While yes, Physick is mathematically weaker then Adlo or just using an ogcd. Now it feels good to use. Inefficient yes, but good. Now it's a single weave option so now you can do stuff like Physick +Lustrate to burst up a target or Physick + Whispering Dawn and heal one person and splashing an aoe heal. If healing was more demanding and mana management more of an issue Physick would be awesome for adding more flexibility to the scholar's healing. But as it stands now...

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

That's the issue I've been seeing. While yes, Physick is mathematically weaker then Adlo or just using an ogcd. Now it feels good to use. Inefficient yes, but good. Now it's a single weave option so now you can do stuff like Physick +Lustrate to burst up a target or Physick + Whispering Dawn and heal one person and splashing an aoe heal. If healing was more demanding and mana management more of an issue Physick would be awesome for adding more flexibility to the scholar's healing. But as it stands now...

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I'd argue it needs a slight bit more than this. Not only is Physick mathematically weaker than Adlo, etc....but it's also mathematically weaker than Cure (400 potency for Physick and Benefic vs 450 for Cure) and has no boost to encourage use (unlike both Cure and Benefic, which at least give a chance at boosting Cure II and Benefic II, respectively). As it stands, it's literally the worst healing spell any healer has in the game. If they wanted to keep it fairy themed, perhaps something like "15% chance to to convert your fairy's next Embrace to Seraphic Veil" might be in line.

I've always thought that fairy actions should trigger an advanced effect for Physic like Summoners and Ruin 4. Make Physic an ability that can be weaved any time Embrace Crits. Let physic restore double health randomly like Scathe on BLM. Using Physick could place a buff on yourself or party member that increases healing received by 5% for the next 15 seconds. These could be traits learned later on but Physick needs some love. It's the only base line healing spell that doesn't get a neat additional effect.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

I'd argue it needs a slight bit more than this. Not only is Physick mathematically weaker than Adlo, etc....but it's also mathematically weaker than Cure (400 potency for Physick and Benefic vs 450 for Cure) and has no boost to encourage use (unlike both Cure and Benefic, which at least give a chance at boosting Cure II and Benefic II, respectively). As it stands, it's literally the worst healing spell any healer has in the game. If they wanted to keep it fairy themed, perhaps something like "15% chance to to convert your fairy's next Embrace to Seraphic Veil" might be in line.

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Does it really matter if Cure is technically the best of those three heals if you never actually cast Cure outside of the worst possible situations, and even then only with gritted teeth? Let's be honest, a WHM using Cure excessively is either playing pretty low-level content, or doing something wrong...
There isn't much incentive for a WHM to use Cure, but if there is for a SCH, why not.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Does it really matter if Cure is technically the best of those three heals if you never actually cast Cure outside of the worst possible situations, and even then only with gritted teeth? Let's be honest, a WHM using Cure excessively is either playing pretty low-level content, or doing something wrong...
There isn't much incentive for a WHM to use Cure, but if there is for a SCH, why not.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that's not the case either...but at least there's some silver lining if you get in that situation (or if you're playing low level content). Conversely, for SCH it's just like "well this sucks on all fronts."

Remember, as well, this was in reply to somebody who was suggesting damage occurring regularly enough to make Physick justifiable in higher level content...that would likely apply to Cure eventually as well in the same regard. I was saying "just that isn't enough to really make it good, though."

I always found Physick to be ok since I used it in tandem with Embrace or Roused Embrace. It was those moments where someone was low on health, I was out of AF, it wasnt an emergency but this guy needed a heal within the next GCDs so Embrace alone didnt cut it. If anything Physick could be weaker and Embrace potency increased to promote working with your fairy more.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that's not the case either...but at least there's some silver lining if you get in that situation (or if you're playing low level content). Conversely, for SCH it's just like "well this sucks on all fronts."

Remember, as well, this was in reply to somebody who was suggesting damage occurring regularly enough to make Physick justifiable in higher level content...that would likely apply to Cure eventually as well in the same regard. I was saying "just that isn't enough to really make it good, though."

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Big fat disclaimer about opinions here.

I agree, after all, I did say it was too weak and inefficient, I didnt say it was great the way it was. I only said it felt good. Things can feel good to use but be bad to do. Another good example is single weaving with Ruin II. While clipping with Broil II is better unless you have bad latency. It feels better to weave off Ruin Ii and not clip your gcd.

That to me is what my ultimate problem with SCH is atm. It has these skills that feel like they would be great if their numbers where better and the fights catered to their uses. But currently that's not the case. Mathematically Physick is garbage when it feels good to use as a healing tool because of its ability to weave skills on it. Mathematically Ruin II is worse then clipping Broil for single weaves but it feels better to do the latter. I like the gameplay loop things like this imply but as they're currently implemented its more efficient to play against these designs.

And yes. We could really use a damage/dump/ aetherflow skill. It might even serve to make Ruin II feel better to use.

Personally I still feel that all Aetherflow needs is to act as a dump when you use it. Make it recover more mp and give extra fey gauge based on your current Aetherflow stack count (ideally 15-20 per stack to reward players who save it). I’d rather lean in on Ruin II usage to boost SCH’s DPS and make physick more competitive with other heals with a minor 50-100 potency bump than push Energy Drain back into SCH’s kit too. The changes proved to me that SCH doesn’t need ED or Quickened Aetherflow (thank god this is gone) to be engaging, just a smoothing out of their current fluidity issues, particularly when it comes to encouraging them to build fey gauge. Fey Union is still powerful but it certainly takes longer to access in a trial if you sit on aetherflow stacks the way you’re encouraged to. Storing up extra gauge and getting more MP back from using dissipation in dungeons doesn’t hurt either.