Summoner love

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Originally Posted by CodeAscalon

Dunno out of so many people, two think Smn is fine as he is. You got your opinions which is fine, but you wont move the majority I guess. *shrugs*

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Once again, please don't put words in my mouth.

I NEVER claimed that SMN is "fine as is".

SMN has gameplay issues, yes.
I will concede that it needs more adjustments further down the line.

But Egis as a concept is NOT one of those issues.
They all need adjustments (like potency increases or even additional effects), yes. But lore-wise they are fine.

Also, they still haven't ignored the lore behind them, judging by the encyclopaedies released thus far.
There's even lore in the most noteworthy actions (like Tri-disaster being based on the disasters brought by the Warring Triad), if you bothered to look.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Once again, please don't put words in my mouth.

I NEVER claimed that SMN is "fine as is".

SMN has gameplay issues, yes.
I will concede that it needs more adjustments further down the line.

But Egis as a concept is NOT one of those issues.
They all need adjustments (like potency increases or even additional effects), yes. But lore-wise they are fine.

Also, they still haven't ignored the lore behind them, judging by the encyclopaedies released thus far.
There's even lore in the most noteworthy actions (like Tri-disaster being based on the disasters brought by the Warring Triad), if you bothered to look.

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Mate, I was just stating the facts. The minority thinks the smn is fine now. and by saying you think its fine I meant actually both of you. And if you dont think so it's fine, you made yourself clear.

Doesn't change the fact that changes will come with future updates, because and again it's fact, they made smn worse with the micromanagement and overview of your management and flow, because, and again, it is fact that some things don't line up .

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Originally Posted by Taranok

More or less, and if you have a mind for understanding the rotation intuitively, you would have known something was wrong immediately because of how the rotation flows between mixed densities of oGCDs, the way you basically have to watch 10 separate timers all over the place. The class is less "DDR" and more "John Madden." The real DDR rotations are Machinist, Bard, and Dancer. And every last one of them feels busy and feels good being busy, except Machinist. And Machinist's only real major problem is that anyone over a ping of about 60 will find running the rotation to feel awful through no fault of their own because you cannot single weave during heat blast.

The current summoner has more in common with the SB machinist than it does the current Machinist, which is to say there will be a select group of people who really love it because they have the unique ability to be able to understand the rotation and perform well on it, some people who are bad at it but love it anyways because they love the theme, flanked by people who want to actually play well or deal with a class that has an actually good flow to it that abandon the class en masse despite loving the class otherwise.

Factor in that the class loses a lot of damage every time it has to move, and current fights demand a lot of movement, and the rotation just more or less falls to hell.

This is also why I constantly say that Summoner is a collection of really good ideas that don't mesh well. There isn't a single thing changed in Summoner that, when taken individually, sounded like a terrible idea. But once you combine it all together you realize the rotation is an absolute mess and it demands too much attention from the player to perform optimally without having the tools to realistically perform the rotation optimally consistently well.

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I agree. I absolutely think if someone loves the rotation they should be vocal about it. So, I'm not trying to come and be rude to OP. SE needs feedback and everyone has a right to an opinion. I personally have issues with the design and flow. How it works on a dummy is ok, but in practice of harder content it's got many issues that need to be worked out. Personally the rotation layout really bugs me. Why force early Deathflares in Trance? It's overall bad design. It's a mobility phase that basically gets burnt and then back to turret. Some of the dots line up weird. Pets are glitchy, but that I expect. There's always been some glitch on pets, since I've started playing in 2005 it started in ffxi and carried over. Stormblood summoner made up for that glitch and we did shine. To me, it feels like they ran out of time working on the rotation and had to make the best of it. If not, maybe they are trying to plan ahead for the future, but in the current to me it needs a fix. As an aside, there are things that have been nice additions like instant cast pets and bane changes (though dots still have some delay). 4.0 was terrible and they improved it. I hope that is what we will see here. The kinks worked out.

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Originally Posted by CodeAscalon

I dont see an issue them tweaking the skills ignoring the lore when it has been done for other classes. So it IS an invalid argument.

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Please cite references.

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Originally Posted by CodeAscalon

Dunno out of so many people, two think Smn is fine as he is. You got your opinions which is fine, but you wont move the majority I guess. *shrugs*

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Please explain how you are the voice of the majority.

The DPS for summoner is far, far too low for how perfectly you need to play around all of the jank to have competitive numbers. The skill ceiling is now higher than it was in ARR/HW but it doesn't have any of the pay off it did back then. With the changes to demi-bahamut and the larger damage discrepancies between Ruin 3 and Ruin 2 summoner is no longer mobile but still has nowhere near the same punch as blackmage. I feel like this is the worst summoner has been in the entire game's history.

Right now summoner requires several times more focus and effort to play effectively and still deals inferior damage to machinist and only slightly higher than bard.

I absolutely love the rotation and it is a lot of fun. In fact it's the only job I really enjoy right now because the others are just way too easy.

That said, summoners dps should definitely be increased to reflect the amount of buttons pushed. Black mage is the easiest to play and it's very simple to maintain, but should be ahead of red mage in dps because of red mage's utility.

Summoner should be highest of the casters because of their inability to move during fights, and how busy the rotation is, and the game shouldn't reward people more dps for doing less.