Bard - I miss Refresh :(

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

I think a lot of Bard mains out there saw the Tour video or read the changes and said "oh no". I certainly did.
I do wonder if a better way to balance 2 rDPS support-type classes would've been to make Dancer focused on 1-person buffs and Bard on AOE/Raid-wide utility buffs. Buff Dancer's since it's single target while Bard's keeps a lower potency.
Maybe another way would've been that Bard's buffs could focus more on certain types like mp generation and defensive-type buffs while Dancer's would be more offensive-focused.

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I think your second option would have been perfect. Dancer has Shield Samba and Curing Waltz, but generally it’s support is in damage buffs. So it makes sense that a competing ranged DPS would offer something it doesn’t, like defensive/utility oriented buffs. It also means it doesn’t encroach onto the territory of the third competitor which is more about direct damage.

Or they could just remove all the utility and give it no place between the competitors. I don’t know if Machinist actually does more DPS than Bards, but if it does then Bard may as well not exist lol. It can’t compete with Dancer’s support, and probably not with Machinist’s straight up damage.

Also, I wish they wouldn’t give us support abilities that exist for the sole reason of being able to say Bards provide support. Like, when has anyone ever said ‘wow I’m so glad I had Minne’, ‘things went so much better with Paean’, ‘that Battle Voice really helped our DPS’. Especially when they’re all off GCD and thus can’t really do much outside of being a token ‘support’ ability.

At least Requiem required a bit of thought lol

It'd be nice if it got Refresh back, or maybe an MP transfer type ability. Would help keep the 'support' aspect of it alive during prog at least.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I think your second option would have been perfect. Dancer has Shield Samba and Curing Waltz, but generally it’s support is in damage buffs. So it makes sense that a competing ranged DPS would offer something it doesn’t, like defensive/utility oriented buffs. It also means it doesn’t encroach onto the territory of the third competitor which is more about direct damage.

Or they could just remove all the utility and give it no place between the competitors. I don’t know if Machinist actually does more DPS than Bards, but if it does then Bard may as well not exist lol. It can’t compete with Dancer’s support, and probably not with Machinist’s straight up damage.

Also, I wish they wouldn’t give us support abilities that exist for the sole reason of being able to say Bards provide support. Like, when has anyone ever said ‘wow I’m so glad I had Minne’, ‘things went so much better with Paean’, ‘that Battle Voice really helped our DPS’. Especially when they’re all off GCD and thus can’t really do much outside of being a token ‘support’ ability.

At least Requiem required a bit of thought lol

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Which is probably why so many people forgot about it lol

I think the quantity of buffs we had in SB hit the perfect balance for the class. We had a cleanse, 2 enmity reducers one of which acted as a mp generator as well and good varied mitigation to help out our healers and tanks. I believe the devs could look at the Healer's buffs and tweak Bard's so they flow together more easily (since Healers are a must at least it wouldn't technically turn Bard into a must-pick), as in offer something that Healers might be lacking like a boost in healing or a boost in regen potency.

My 2nd suggestion might indeed be one of the best options moving forward with 2 support-rDPS hybrids, in my honest opinion of course.

I probably wouldn't be nearly as salty about the lack of support skills on Bard if we could use the ones we still have more often and at earlier levels. I think the fact that we get Troubadour at 62 while Dancer and Machinist get the same thing, Shield Samba and Tactician, at 56 is odd to me, especially since Bard is supposed to be more support focused than MCH. I'd like to use Nature's Minne more often than once every 90 sec, even if it is useless to an extent, but I'd also like Palisade or something like it for tankbuster mitigation, and Arm's Length is near useless outside of solo content.

Okay, after leveling to 76 I can so on just the pure dps side I'm really enjoying my Bard. I still my my "support" stuff but the class still feels very fluid...even though I still feel the loss of my old skills and that something's lacking. I'm having a fun time with it. On one hand I really miss being more of a supporting class and on the other it's super nice not to have to watch my teammates mana or tp anymore. I'm able to focus more on the fight and I'm getting hit with less stuff. Most of my getting hit or dying was from me glacing up at everyone's mana/health/tp whatever every so often so now that I don't have to that's gone. I love the fact that refulgent arrow is now much more useful. It felt like it would only ever pop up every so often in the past....usually when a mob is practically dead so while it was useful in boss fights it always just felt a little too late for anything else most of the time. Now it's popping up repeatedly and has become one of my major abilities I use. Shadowbite is a really decent aoe especially if you have your dots already on your targets which you should always do anyway so that will help more Bards learn to dot up all their enemies and I love the new animation on our main shot (sorry, can't recall it's name atm).

All in all I feel our dps was increased quite a bit. I didn't notice anything at first especially at 70. I was being out dps'd by a lot of other classes easily but by 74 I noticed I was taking down mobs a lot faster than a lot of the classes I saw running around me. Of course it could just be a coincidence and maybe they had crap gear on but it feels like from a pure dps perspective we're still in a very good place and our songs still bring good stuff to the table. I heard someone mention that Dancers now bring a lot more support than we do....if that's so then I'm definitely going to check the class out. I always love playing a supporting role in addition to doing dps but other than losing most of our support I feel the Bard is still a fun and strong class to play. From a pure dps standpoint you really can't go wrong with a Bard. I mean sure there's other classes that can out damage us but our mobility gives us a huge edge. Our damage never has to stop. Of course I need to check in with my machinist soon so I can see what changes they got and how good or bad they are now. I never liked the convoluted bullet charging mess that was a Machinist though so I'm hoping it feels more fluid now. If not then the Dancer will be my next try. My Bard will continue to be my main though. I love it too much. I loved it before I learned how to use my support abilities to help my group so if anything I'm just reverting to what I initially fell in love with.