Will People still use the classes within the prime fights?

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Originally Posted by Chinook

With a really good tank, it is possible to have MP issues on Ifrit. But like you said, I had to be over 35+ DPS to start having real MP problems.

Magic accuracy also plays a big role since a lot of MP is wasted if some spells get resisted and they do not generate as much hate.

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It makes you think though... BLM will do more damage (in theory) but THMs are already limited in how much damage they can do, based off of hate

So how much more damage can you do?

One of the BLM abilities should have been the Black mage equivalent to shroud of saints....
Maybe call it Umbral Veil?

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Originally Posted by Chinook

With a really good tank, it is possible to have MP issues on Ifrit. But like you said, I had to be over 35+ DPS to start having real MP problems.

Magic accuracy also plays a big role since a lot of MP is wasted if some spells get resisted and they do not generate as much hate.

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well that leaves alot of room for error there. what i will say is a tank is only as good as being able to make use of their abilities to maximum efficiency. each ability is given a certain number of points per ability on the hate gauge. a good tank can be considered anything from 80-100% effectively being able to get the max points they could get or you could only count a good tank as one that can be 100% efficient.

i've had some good and some really bad tanks. there's only 3 tanks that i will even join a party with on my server. those 3 can make me actually work to get into the red. the problem is it's not just the tank you have to worry about because if you are drastically out damaging the other party members you drop slowly back down the hate gauge. it makes me really miss the good days of accomplice.

edit: like you pointed out though. you have to get to roughly 35+ dps to start noticing mp issues now. how much would you have to boost that dps to start seeing issues with bard giving mp refresh? that's what i was getting at. if thm's are already having to limit themselves due to grabbing hate and you have to do massive amounts of damage to pull hate then with a better tank(pld) and mp refresh will it finally break the limits that thm could push or would thm still have to limit itself? if it does still have to limit itself then blm is not an upgrade, but more of a lateral move.

this is part of why i am so ready to get the jobs in my hands though. it's questions i am ready to answer, but i cannot answer any questions or speculation until the patch hits.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

well that leaves alot of room for error there. what i will say is a tank is only as good as being able to make use of their abilities to maximum efficiency. each ability is given a certain number of points per ability on the hate gauge. a good tank can be considered anything from 80-100% effectively being able to get the max points they could get or you could only count a good tank as one that can be 100% efficient.

i've had some good and some really bad tanks. there's only 3 tanks that i will even join a party with on my server. those 3 can make me actually work to get into the red. the problem is it's not just the tank you have to worry about because if you are drastically out damaging the other party members you drop slowly back down the hate gauge. it makes me really miss the good days of accomplice.

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Oh God... I use to accomplice you so good... I remember accomplicing the hell out of you all over Ifrits little fire pit...
And that one time I accompliced you on the kitchen tab... errr... nevermind

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Oh God... I use to accomplice you so good... I remember accomplicing the hell out of you all over Ifrits little fire pit...
And that one time I accompliced you on the kitchen tab... errr... nevermind

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i was more looking at the lancer stacked parties. would have 4 lancers, but the same person had to be accompliced almost constantly because they were such a much higher damage machine than the others. it's still the same thing with the thm parties in that one will do twice as much damage compared to the others due to in fight factors, but there is no let's pull some hate off of them abilities.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

It makes you think though... BLM will do more damage (in theory) but THMs are already limited in how much damage they can do, based off of hate

So how much more damage can you do?

One of the BLM abilities should have been the Black mage equivalent to shroud of saints....
Maybe call it Umbral Veil?

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Hehe yeah ... tanks will have to work harder ! Sadly, the new Paladin abilities do not seem to be massive hate generators (could be wrong) ... at least
they still have Sacred Prism to AOE cure.

Double and triple meld a belt with -enmity on it? If you're having hate problems and don't have a -enmity belt you're probably doing it wrong. If you're struggling with hate an extra 50-150 MP from belt melding isn't going to help you much. Would be better to just not get as much hate than to add a tiny bit more HP. The Tank should have plenty of +enmity on their belt. Even if they don't -enmity on yours will do you a lot of good.

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Originally Posted by MakaiOokami

Double and triple meld a belt with -enmity on it? If you're having hate problems and don't have a -enmity belt you're probably doing it wrong. If you're struggling with hate an extra 50-150 MP from belt melding isn't going to help you much. Would be better to just not get as much hate than to add a tiny bit more HP. The Tank should have plenty of +enmity on their belt. Even if they don't -enmity on yours will do you a lot of good.

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double slotted max - enimity on my belt already. in fact every piece of gear i have for the 4 classes i play(thm, cnj, lnc, arc)are double slotted. i haven't gotten around to pug, gla, or mrd yet on my double slotted gear because i rarely play those. actually i take that back my wand of tides hq only has single healers hand iv on it, but the rest of that gear is double slotted.

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Originally Posted by MakaiOokami

Double and triple meld a belt with -enmity on it? If you're having hate problems and don't have a -enmity belt you're probably doing it wrong. If you're struggling with hate an extra 50-150 MP from belt melding isn't going to help you much. Would be better to just not get as much hate than to add a tiny bit more HP. The Tank should have plenty of +enmity on their belt. Even if they don't -enmity on yours will do you a lot of good.

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because enmity materia makes a huge difference?

Just taking a shot in the dark but my gut tells me that the optimal party setups will consist of PLD WHM BRD and either x5 BLM or x5 ARC depending on the mob's weakness. I say ARC instead of BRD because I don't view BRD as a DD really and ARC has much more cross-class abilities at their disposal.

People will yet again complain how classes and now jobs are unbalanced, but it's because they choose to follow the strategies of others instead of forming their own. Same old story all over again.

This is all of course assuming these new fights will have AoEs, which they most likely will. As far as current content goes, I still see 5x BLM for Ifrit and 5-6 ARC for Moogles as the norm.