Limit Break too Limiting

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Ok... you enticed me back into the conversation.

So to clarify. You were speed running with a group of toxic people who won't LB bc it's a DPS loss? Or are you suggesting that using LB can actually make a fight shorter and therefore increase everyone's DPS?

Basically the point I've been arguing from the beginning. That logs do not encourage people to not use LB. That it isn't as black and white of an issue as you are making out.
But clearly logs were incentivizing you to not use LB.

Edit: This is legitimately the last I will say on the matter though as you are now brandishing your logs as a weapon and becoming insulting.

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I mean, i wouldnt bring up my logs if you didnt look down on me and questions "if i ever raid", so i kinda have to shoot that back to you and ask how fair you are.
For me, i dont speed run outside of my group, since its not worth the time you going to spend on PF to get a good logs.

But FFlogs encourage people to NOT LB because they lost self DPS, is what i see from my experience.
LB at the right time will always make the fight faster, but the person that LB always lose slightly dps.
I cleared Final Omega for 24 times now since Echo(only count Echo logs), and my Warrior(which is not even my main class) get 92 percentile easily from PF but it could be 95 you know if someone would LB, we might even be able to skip 2nd Archive All, you know... (its not even Uptime strat or logs run / nor anyone cares about logs anymore after Echo)
In short it could be faster if someone (melee)LB, but no "my deeps"

Edit : if you ask why am i running it again for 24 times, i just getting a book for Gunbreaker/Dancer because i cant get a coffer(2 weapons and in case Dancer have an exclusive armor, which i doubt it)

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Originally Posted by Shadowbringer

I mean, i wouldnt bring up my logs if you didnt look down on me and questions "if i ever raid", so i kinda have to shoot that back to you and ask how fair you are.
For me, i dont speed run outside of my group, since its not worth the time you going to spend on PF to get a good logs.

But FFlogs encourage people to NOT LB because they lost self DPS, is what i see from my experience.
LB at the right time will always make the fight faster, but the person that LB always lose slightly dps.
I cleared Final Omega for 24 times now since Echo(only count Echo logs), and my Warrior(which is not even my main class) get 92 percentile easily from PF but it could be 95 you know if someone would LB, we might even be able to skip 2nd Archive All, you know... (its not even Uptime strat or logs run / nor anyone cares about logs anymore after Echo)
In short it could be faster if someone (melee)LB, but no "my deeps"

Edit : if you ask why am i running it again for 24 times, i just getting a book for Gunbreaker/Dancer because i cant get a coffer(2 weapons and in case Dancer have an exclusive armor, which i doubt it)

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Clearly you and I couldn't have had any more different experiences in Savage then. I have seen people use logs as a reason to improve and down boss quicker. You seem to be seeing it as only bringing problems. We will not see eye to eye on the matter.

I apologize if you thought I was insulting you when I asked if you even raided. I was legitimately considering that as a reason we couldn't understand each other. I have become more and more frustrated talking to you about this as I do not understand your point of view, and likely never will. If you truly aren't taking up your stance solely to be antagonistic, I have no further reason to speak to you about this as again. We clearly will not be changing the other persons views.

Edit: Also taking this any further would derail the topic even further. Please understand.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Clearly you and I couldn't have had any more different experiences in Savage then. I have seen people use logs as a reason to improve and down boss quicker. You seem to be seeing it as only bringing problems. We will not see eye to eye on the matter.

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- "Self improve" by bragging i have 95 percentile+ because i didnt touch LB a single time is not self improve, that is selfishness on another level.

- Not LB boss at all doesnt make the fight faster in anyway.

- It is a problem when 90% of the dps players refuse to LB because they complain about their own FFlogs.

EDIT : Its about LB, no matters how good Square Enix fix it, if its not going to be use then its futile, "because i lost my own dps reason and FFlogs is the main reason for "im not going to use LB"".

The problem I have with the LB system is that most of them are useless now, here is how I see the current system:

Healer
LB1: Useless - never use
LB2: Useless - never use
LB3: Somewhat useful - only used for wipe recovery

Tanks
LB1: Useless - never use
LB2: Useless - never use
LB3: Only when mechanics require, otherwise useless

DPS
LB1: Only use if one LB bar present
LB2: Only use if two LB bar present or if fight ends early
LB3: Only use if three LB bar present or if fight ends early

Thus, the only LBs at this point that are of any consistent value are the DPS ones and the healer and tank LBs might as well be forgotten unless the very VERY situational event occurs that requires their 3 bar version.

No thank you.

.-. Honestly hate the supers in Smash. Some characters just have some god-awful supers, just like casters and ranged physical will objectively have god-awful limit breaks on a single target fight.

I think it would be nice to have individual LB's. Because it really feels like people just want to have their cool moment.

I've had moments where i am melee and i am about to LB 3 but then some caster decides to LB the boss instead.

I've always wanted Limit Breaks to be individual based, with a chaining system in place for the higher level effects. So rather than just hitting Lv3 and throwing it out, you'd have a system where your group chains basic LBs (which I'd also rework tbh), and then a select player (based on their position in the chain, I suppose) gets an "Overlimit" status effect, allowing them to throw out the current Lv3 LB.

Basic LBs I'd like to see given unique animations based on role, if not Job, with a few changes to effects as well... Rework Caster and Ranged LB specifically, make Caster an enfeeble based skill (even if this is just a vuln debuff for the sake of this games cowardly approach to CC skills) and Ranged into a party wide buff, given Ranged seem to halfheartedly fill the Support role in this game.

The chaining system itself could be achieved by putting a "Was just LB'd" status effect on players/monsters that were just hit, with a short duration of course. So attack LBs hit the monster with that effect, and to chain you'd need to hit the monster with the same effect again to go "Overlimit", alternatively your Healer can LB and give you a status effect, then when you LB within the timelimit, you go "Overlimit" to unlock LB3.

Would require some level of potency adjustments of course, and a relook at some of the boss encounters that specifically fill LB gauge, but I'd find that kind of system much more engaging than what we currently have. It lets everyone throw out a cool and useful move, it lets groups that work together throw out something more. Technically we'd be throwing out much more (if it's just a two player chain for LB3s, then you go from 1 per Full Party to 4), but they're cool skills... Let us use them more often... Especially the Healer/Tank ones that rarely see any use...

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

In 1.0 there was a system similar to limit break called "Battle Regimen" where each individual party member could activate a special skill, and if everyone used it at the same time, it chained them together for bonus damage.

I think a system like this would be more interesting personally. Where each member gets their own LB and if used in unison with other party members you can create some special effects. For example, if both healers use theirs together it activates the LB3 function of raising all party members. If both tanks use theirs together, it makes all party members invincible for a short time. If all DPS use theirs together it does massive damage and maybe applies something like vulnerability up to the boss for a short time so everyone can do some bonus damage after LB goes off.

They could go really in-depth with something like this too, where depending on the types and number of LB used together you get some unique effects. For example there could be effects for tanks and healers LBing together, or Healer and DPS LBing together. Maybe some really OP effect if the whole party LBs at the same time.

Anyway, I do agree that the current LB system is rather bland and could use an update.

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it seems they didnt believe this was worthwhile. The wanted a simpler lb system i guess. To be completely honest, i always felt some of the 1.0 battle iterations (yoshida tweaked it a bunch of times) were more interesting and engaging Than 2.0s systems.