Ive no faith in SE/Yoshi-P when comes to balancing healers

I find it funny that its astralogin players who are supportive yoshi P. cant even began to understand the stress the fury white mage mains feel at current state. they dont know what it feels like getting shaft every expansion in final fantasy 14

cause they get in every single savage static. never have want for anything? never have hear your friends tell you play astra even if you hate that type of healer whites start at lvl1 you start you start at 30 how in da fuck do you even understand how a white mage feels like when your spoiled rotten with raid ulities to point your bounderline op

thing is YOU DON't white-mages and conjurers been in the game sense the beginning. yet anytime new dps introduced into the game. track records starts just because you one day desided to level whm to 1-70 never touched it again. means you know anything about people who mained white mage for years. so cant even began to come close to are disappointiment.

Hope.. their is no hope. stop build hype when all their is gonna be disappointment.

duh we must nerf the white mage. Pampered pouch like astra-main has no right comment on how shitty state of white mage. when had watch every expansion. get shafted every single time. stormblood hit whms so hard. heavenwards we got shafted too .. you tell me. what we white mage mains ghow to look foward too then another kick in the butt. cause we already know we getting spanked for no good reason

tell me what hope do we have when yoshi-p says make white-mage better "I guess make white mage easier"

Limited Job

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

We didn't get a 4th tank in Stormblood due to their "rebalancing" of the existing tank jobs. Did that actually happen? Sort of, DRK and PLD swapped spots, but WAR still ended on top. Here it is again with healers, no new healer so they can rebalance the existing ones. It's up to you whether you believe their word, but their track record would suggest against that, hence the skepticism.

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I'm unaware of any rebalancing of tanks. I am however aware that they acknowledged that DRK had issues and they would work on it. I'm also aware that PLD was in a bad place in 3.0, and they rectified that as well. PLD is in a solid spot as OT in raids and has been for pretty much the entirety of SB. They are perfectly capable of getting tanking done in dungeons, and/or MT if paired with another PLD. DRK and WAR are interchangeable if paired together depending on who actually wants to MT or one of them get's KO'd, and each are a solid MT if paired with a PLD.

They did make adjustments to DRK, and it is actually a pretty damn good tank in all content and is a very engaging job to play with monstrous AoE capability. DRK still does have some issues when it comes to dark arts spamming, and players still despise the healing requirement of Living Dead, which are views I do not share, let alone agree with. However, without that requirement and otherwise left as is, easily becomes the strongest invul skill in the game with no disadvantages when compared to WAR and PLD. I feel they've done a damn good job with all three of the tanks, which definitely has allowed for GUN to enter the game. If that is indeed what you want to use to add fuel to the "skepticism" fire with balancing healers.

Yoshi's comments to Mr. Happy is actually the first time I've heard him openly admit that healers are basically a clusterfuq. It was the first time that I ever got the impression that they have finally come to a decision that it can no longer continue. Yet players want to pass judgment before even getting the facts, which no one is going to see until May. If there is any kind of "track record", it is how they have treated our healers in the past with the leap frogging, SCH nerfs at the beginning of 4.0, AST continuous over-tune, and WHM's passive lily system, but this has absolutely nothing to do with tanks and their adjustments, which is actually an argument that works in their favor.

The above mentioned is the reason why healer mains are worried - not skeptical of the incoming healer adjustments. If we want to use a track record, then it would be a good idea to be prepared for things still not being quite right when 5.0 hits, but we will get a firm understanding of the direction they want to go when May comes around.

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Originally Posted by CelestaRosa

I find it funny that its astralogin players who are supportive yoshi P. cant even began to understand the stress the fury white mage mains feel at current state. they dont know what it feels like getting shaft every expansion in final fantasy 14

cause they get in every single savage static. never have want for anything? never have hear your friends tell you play astra even if you hate that type of healer whites start at lvl1 you start you start at 30 how in da fuck do you even understand how a white mage feels like when your spoiled rotten with raid ulities to point your bounderline op

thing is YOU DON't white-mages and conjurers been in the game sense the beginning. yet anytime new dps introduced into the game. track records starts just because you one day desided to level whm to 1-70 never touched it again. means you know anything about people who mained white mage for years. so cant even began to come close to are disappointiment.

Hope.. their is no hope. stop build hype when all their is gonna be disappointment.

duh we must nerf the white mage. Pampered pouch like astra-main has no right comment on how shitty state of white mage. when had watch every expansion. get shafted every single time. stormblood hit whms so hard. heavenwards we got shafted too .. you tell me. what we white mage mains ghow to look foward too then another kick in the butt. cause we already know we getting spanked for no good reason

tell me what hope do we have when yoshi-p says make white-mage better "I guess make white mage easier"

Limited Job

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Apparently you weren't around when AST was brought into the game. You might want to ask some of the AST mains out there how this time was for them from 3.0 until nearly the end of HW when their over-tuning began and seemingly never stopped.

I get your frustrations with AST. Believe me I do. But you're no different from everyone else passing judgment about what's going to happen to WHM based off of a silly track record and over-thinking comments made by Yoshi about making WHM easier. Save your energy until you get the facts.

I really don´t get the "its so unbalanced" argument.

From all the MMOs i played, FF14 has by far the best job balancing. Every job can be played at Endgame.

Also in FF14 you have the ability to play every job with 1 charakter. So you are a for example Tank main -> if you are playing high end things you will most likely have every tank leveled anyways. If the meta is so important, just use the "best" Tank job.

If every job should do exactly the same damage/utility, then every job would just play the same.

Based off of his recent interview, I'm thinking SCH could probably be seeing some nerfs or at least some significant gameplay/ability changes. I also think AST might be seeing changes pending what they do to SCH that could potentially make it unrecognizable outside of their card gimmick. Don't know if their sects will still be around since it sounds like Yoshi-P is rethinking the barrier/regen identity dynamics. I have no idea what any of this will mean for WHM though. Like- it could go either way.

In my mind, I'm (probably incorrectly) envisioning heavy changes, like, 1.23 to 2.0-scale. Again, like reworking the whole shielding/ regen dynamics, AST losing its sects, SCH's fairy getting gutted, etc. But I don't know how serious they are about balancing healers and the groundwork involved.

It's pretty telling though in their PvP ability pruning as a sample. They literally stripped down the healers to a handful of abilities and a lot don't even work the same way that they do in PvE. And for a while there was a pretty noticeable gap in the strength of healers in PvP with only like 5 spells/abilities setting them apart. Heck, SCH started out with a DPS spell that siphoned the target's MP- wonder who thought that wouldn't be OP. So I don't really fault people for being skeptical after watching them flounder with healer balance for a while in PvP with only like 6 skills/spells each.

I just hope they do not repeat the same mistakes they did with SB...

Just flat out nerfing SCH all over without fundamentally changing WHM and AST is not going to make WHM better. It's onky making SCH less fun!

What I hope for is for them finally giving every healer identity.
WHM:
- Keep it being the reactive healer with the big numbers
- Give it some kind of grp-utility!
- Overwork lilys and PI to be actually useful.
- Give it back some of its identity (f.e. make "Protect" a WHM-only CD ability with some serious dmg-reduce, it's click and forget anyway right now!)

SCH:
- Keep it being the proactive shield healer, with more pet ability interaction
- Make both fairys useful, maybe make Selene buff SCH-shields (only a little!) or take away Chain-Strat and give Selene some actual grp-utility
- Critlo has to go! I do love my crit shields, but they are honestly too OP.
- Indom has to be either a higher CD or a small cast timer slapped on
- Rework the fairy gauge to have more than one use... Maybe get rid of AF and use the gauge instead.
- Dissipation has to be changed - I can count one one hand the times i have used it during HW and SB...

AST:
- Focus on the card identity!
- Make Sects influence cards, not healing.
- Make AST the oGCD/highly mobile heal without hots or shields, lightspeed already fits that fantasy. Of course the healing potencies have to be reduced so it's not on par with WHM in that department.

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Originally Posted by CelestaRosa

I find it funny that its astralogin players who are supportive yoshi P. cant even began to understand the stress the fury white mage mains feel at current state. they dont know what it feels like getting shaft every expansion in final fantasy 14

cause they get in every single savage static. never have want for anything? never have hear your friends tell you play astra even if you hate that type of healer whites start at lvl1 you start you start at 30 how in da fuck do you even understand how a white mage feels like when your spoiled rotten with raid ulities to point your bounderline op

thing is YOU DON't white-mages and conjurers been in the game sense the beginning. yet anytime new dps introduced into the game. track records starts just because you one day desided to level whm to 1-70 never touched it again. means you know anything about people who mained white mage for years. so cant even began to come close to are disappointiment.

Hope.. their is no hope. stop build hype when all their is gonna be disappointment.

duh we must nerf the white mage. Pampered pouch like astra-main has no right comment on how shitty state of white mage. when had watch every expansion. get shafted every single time. stormblood hit whms so hard. heavenwards we got shafted too .. you tell me. what we white mage mains ghow to look foward too then another kick in the butt. cause we already know we getting spanked for no good reason

tell me what hope do we have when yoshi-p says make white-mage better "I guess make white mage easier"

Limited Job

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Clearly, you weren't playing when HW launched and AST was actually unplayable. And I mean actually unplayable. At least WHM has always been playable even if it isn't meta, but AST was so bad at the start of HW that players would leave duties and/or kick players if they saw an AST in the party. And we've been dealing with SE's inability to adequately keep us balanced since.

AST is in demand for statics that care about optimization. But for statics that don't? It doesn't matter to them what two healers there are as long as the healers can heal incoming damage. I didn't get a full-time AST until UwU and Alphascape because the statics I was in didn't care to min-max, so they just ran WHM/SCH with the WHM maybe doing AST from time to time. If you aren't a group that cares about optimization and logs, you aren't going to care about bringing an AST over a WHM, really.

I don't see any AST mains that actually support WHM being trash. Must would prefer for the developers to drop its "pure healer" identity (an identity that will never work in a game where, even in Ultimate, you don't spend 50% of your casts healing damage), and give it utility like the other two healers. But, by all means, continue to hate on ASTs and claim we don't want WHM to see improvements. You clearly haven't read a lot of posts on the healer forums from ASTs.

As I stated before, I am hoping that the comment about making WHM easier to play is the developers finally addressing its clipping issue with its oGCDs. It honestly should have also received the 1.5 second cast time treatment for Stone spells that AST did for Malefic back in 4.2/4.3 (or whenever it was).

You need to calm down.

I do hope they go over Healers more in depth come May.. Not just show abilities but explain what they plan on doing moving forward with the role. They really need to take that time to explain themselves and open up.

I am really tired of reading the "Just wait until such and such date." "Please look forward to it."

Some of us have just been waiting. If OP and other players don't have faith then I don't blame them at this point.

I have more faith in professional game developers to balance the jobs than people who whine about it all day on internet forums and message boards.

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Originally Posted by CelestaRosa

I find it funny that its astralogin players who are supportive yoshi P. cant even began to understand the stress the fury white mage mains feel at current state. they dont know what it feels like getting shaft every expansion in final fantasy 14

cause they get in every single savage static. never have want for anything? never have hear your friends tell you play astra even if you hate that type of healer whites start at lvl1 you start you start at 30 how in da fuck do you even understand how a white mage feels like when your spoiled rotten with raid ulities to point your bounderline op

thing is YOU DON't white-mages and conjurers been in the game sense the beginning. yet anytime new dps introduced into the game. track records starts just because you one day desided to level whm to 1-70 never touched it again. means you know anything about people who mained white mage for years. so cant even began to come close to are disappointiment.

Hope.. their is no hope. stop build hype when all their is gonna be disappointment.

duh we must nerf the white mage. Pampered pouch like astra-main has no right comment on how shitty state of white mage. when had watch every expansion. get shafted every single time. stormblood hit whms so hard. heavenwards we got shafted too .. you tell me. what we white mage mains ghow to look foward too then another kick in the butt. cause we already know we getting spanked for no good reason

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3.0 Ast was probably the worst designed full job they ever made though 2.0 war might tie for it. It had heals were far inferior to both whm and sch so much so you were a liability if you played even remotely sub par even playing well it couldn't handle much let alone anything substantial like solo heal Ravana ex (Very few ast players did this as it was just that inferior) something the other 2 healers could do much more comfortably and alexander savage basically said switch off ast asap.

Ast's cards were worse than Fey wind from the fairy, every single card, to even remotely outdo that fairy buff you needed to get aoe balance every minute and this was when redraw can draw the same card you could put back, it also had the lowest pDPS of the 3 healers as well, Collective unconsiousness also only applied regen in Diurnal and Shield in nocturnal not both so you had to choose which version you wanted, Celestial Opposition had the bug were it reset food to seconds left, Spear used to reduce cd timers and you had no way of knowing who it would be useful on as it only reduced the abilities cds when they are used after the card buff had been applied.

TLDR: Whm may be the worst healer atm but it has never reached ast's lowest point it is perfectly usable in any content its just unfortunate the devs took to overbuffing ast & sch and not consider how much it would upset the balance of all 3 healers